M10r - help with a vintage lens choice

[costa43]

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Hi all,

I've added an m10r to my CCD kit (m9p,m8u,m9m) 

Having tested it with a number of my current lenses, I'm finding that even the lesser performing lenses are too sharp for my liking. Does anyone have any recommendations for a 35mm and 50mm that has a more distinct vibe?

List of what I own and have tested. The first two serve a different purpose but may help for overall context 

 

Apo 35mm Summicron 

Apo 50mm Voigtlander

50mm Summilux v3 e46 (fave so far)

50mm Elmar f3.5

40mm Nokton f1.4

Canon 35mm f2 LTM

28mm Minolta f2.8

 

I understand that this is the impossible question to answer but if anyone does have a strong view on a particular lens then it would really help me with my Flickr research! 

Thanks!

Costa

[Hans-Dieter Gülicher]

APO-Summicron 35 mm.

[Smudgerer]

15 minutes ago, costa43 said:

Hi all,

I've added an m10r to my CCD kit (m9p,m8u,m9m) 

Having tested it with a number of my current lenses, I'm finding that even the lesser performing lenses are too sharp for my liking. Does anyone have any recommendations for a 35mm and 50mm that has a more distinct vibe?

List of what I own and have tested. The first two serve a different purpose but may help for overall context 

 

Apo 35mm Summicron 

Apo 50mm Voigtlander

50mm Summilux v3 e46 (fave so far)

50mm Elmar f3.5

40mm Nokton f1.4

Canon 35mm f2 LTM

28mm Minolta f2.8

 

I understand that this is the impossible question to answer but if anyone does have a strong view on a particular lens then it would really help me with my Flickr research! 

Thanks!

Costa

I see you already own/ or maybe tried the 40mm Voigtlander f1.4 which is a really nice lens, but try the Voigtlander 35mm Nokton Classic f1.4 II SC. I have both these lenses and like them a lot, and run them on a M10-R as well as a M10-M. Open under f4-f2.8 you may find what you are looking for.

I would think that the Summicron APO would be even sharper than the lenses you've already looked at and maybe rejected because of their rendering / sharpness........But then I've only trialed one, I don't own that lens so I've no decent first hand feedback there.

[jankap]

Can one set the M10R to lower resolution pictures?

[Ouroboros]

I did  a lens swap for a day with another trekker in Nepal in March this year.  He borrowed my 28mm summicron asph safari and I borrowed his Voigtlander 35mm f1.4 nokton ii mc and used it on my M10-R.

I liked the  Voigtlander nokton and will probably get the sc version ii at some point.  
 

Otherwise, I’d suggest a summicron in any version of 35 or 50mm excluding apo summicrons,  ZM 50mm c-sonnar f1.5 and the Voigtlander 50mm f1.5 Heliar Classic.  I have both.  Any of them is a lens you could easily have as your only fast 35mm or 50mm, in particular the c-sonnar 50mm which has  beautiful roll off at f1.5 (especially when optimised at full aperture), to being sharp from f5.6 on without being overly contrasty.

The Voigtlander 50mm f1.5 Heliar Classic is a more specialised creative lens and not one I’d recommend as an only 50mm, but once understood, it’s one of the more interesting lenses in the CV range.  I really like it, it’s very soft and low contrast at full aperture but renders a lot of detail , ideal for flattering portraits and icm images, probably similar in some ways to a Lensbaby Velvet.    Stopped down, it retains a low contrast but very detailed rendering without being too sharp.  It’s an interesting lens for those who take the time to understand it, imo.

Edited August 2, 2023 by Ouroboros

[costa43]

27 minutes ago, Ouroboros said:

I did  a lens swap for a day with another trekker in Nepal in March this year.  He borrowed my 28mm summicron asph safari and I borrowed his Voigtlander 35mm f1.4 nokton ii mc and used it on my M10-R.

I liked the  Voigtlander nokton and will probably get the sc version ii at some point.  
 

Otherwise, I’d suggest a summicron in any version of 35 or 50mm excluding apo summicrons,  ZM 50mm c-sonnar f1.5 and the Voigtlander 50mm f1.5 Heliar Classic.  I have both.  Any of them is a lens you could easily have as your only fast 35mm or 50mm, in particular the c-sonnar 50mm which has  beautiful roll off at f1.5 (especially when optimised at full aperture), to being sharp from f5.6 on without being overly contrasty.

The Voigtlander 50mm f1.5 Heliar Classic is a more specialised creative lens and not one I’d recommend as an only 50mm, but once understood, it’s one of the more interesting lenses in the CV range.  I really like it, it’s very soft and low contrast at full aperture but renders a lot of detail , ideal for flattering portraits and icm images, probably similar in some ways to a Lensbaby Velvet.    Stopped down, it retains a low contrast but very detailed rendering without being too sharp.  It’s an interesting lens for those who take the time to understand it, imo.

Thank you. I may look into the Heliar Classic, it's a lens that I've read about fairly recently. Sounds like it may be a good fit. I've owned the sonnar in the past and sold it when I picked up the 50mm lux pre-asph. I have some regrets about letting it go but I tend to hoard far too much gear and it just ends up on the shelf.

 

 

[costa43]

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40 minutes ago, jankap said:

Can one set the M10R to lower resolution pictures?

Not with the DNG files.

[costa43]

1 hour ago, Smudgerer said:

I see you already own/ or maybe tried the 40mm Voigtlander f1.4 which is a really nice lens, but try the Voigtlander 35mm Nokton Classic f1.4 II SC. I have both these lenses and like them a lot, and run them on a M10-R as well as a M10-M. Open under f4-f2.8 you may find what you are looking for.

I would think that the Summicron APO would be even sharper than the lenses you've already looked at and maybe rejected because of their rendering / sharpness........But then I've only trialed one, I don't own that lens so I've no decent first hand feedback there.

I own the apo summicron 35mm along with the 50mm voigt version. I wanted a 35mm and a 50mm that would give me the maximum resolution for those times that I need it but to be honest, I prefer the character of older lenses.

[shirubadanieru]

Yeah I also find that the Leica sensors with too many megapixels (M10M, M11) make the vintage lens perform better / sharper, which is good for some things but not for others (when you actually want the lenses to perform to their vintage nature hehe). 

That being said, the best vintage lenses from my POV would be:

1) Vintage yet great all rounders (soft wide open, sharp from f2.8~)

- Summicron 35mm 8e (or the LLL remake)

- Summicron Rigid 50mm 

- Lux 50mm (which you have already)

- Lux 35mm (or the voigtlander 35 f1.4 II)

 

2) Vintage lenses that are less sharp but do provide an even more unique rendering

- Nikkor 50mm f1.4 ltm

- Summicron Collapsible

- Hektor 50mm f2.5

- Elmar 35mm f3.5 / Summaron 35mm f3.5

- Summarit 50mm f1.5

[a.noctilux]

If too sharp, I'd add a clear filter with vaseline (tricky amount...).

Or if available fine-mesh stockings, etc.

Or I can use my Summar 5cm.

I have used Summarit 1.5/5cm with hazed lens, quite good for this.

I tried also in post.

Many ways to experiment.

...

good shape Summarit 1.5/5cm well used can be "dreamy" enough seen here

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Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

Edited August 2, 2023 by a.noctilux

[otto.f]

I found the Summicron 35 iv very nice on the M10-R and even surprisingly so. I swapped it for the APO 35 which I do not regret but I do miss it sometimes. Somehow the colors are very nice with this combination and I found it not too sharp. And why would someone pay so much for this lens to date? Because it’s very small and light. Compared to Voigtländer? Because they are bigger especially if you swear by hoods and they seem a little oversaturated which the cron35 iv has not. Try to find Adam Bonn on the M10-R images thread and you’ll see  what I mean. 

Edited August 2, 2023 by otto.f

[otto.f]

2 hours ago, otto.f said:

I found the Summicron 35 iv very nice on the M10-R and even surprisingly so. I swapped it for the APO 35 which I do not regret but I do miss it sometimes. Somehow the colors are very nice with this combination and I found it not too sharp. And why would someone pay so much for this lens to date? Because it’s very small and light. Compared to Voigtländer? Because they are bigger especially if you swear by hoods and they seem a little oversaturated which the cron35 iv has not. Try to find Adam Bonn on the M10-R images thread and you’ll see  what I mean. 

this one for instance:

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Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

 

Edited August 2, 2023 by otto.f

[dpitt]

For me there is a distinct difference between pre-ASPH and ASPH lenses. Current Leica lenses are ASPH or APO. They are designed with extra sharpness and contrast in mind. pre-ASPH Leica lenses are generally smoother and give less contrasty results. It is easier to add contrast in post than extract it with good results.

My favorites on digital M's are:

- Summicron 40C : one of the smallest, low contrast, but can produce stunning results
- Summicron 35 pre-ASPH: a bit to wide for my taste, but types from 70s and 80s are similar to the 40C
- Summicron 50 collapsible: softest of the 50 Summicron, but gets sharper as you stop down a bit.

If this is still too sharp for you then have a look at these LTM lenses

- Summitar 50
- Summar 50

IMO, the first group is producing wonderful results because they were designed with different technology and goals in mind. They will do justice to your M10R, and produce pictures that look less digital.

The second group is showing its age in a different way, with lower performance and more issues. I think using them is more in the same league as using a filter with vaseline all the time, i.e. deliberately choosing to limit your M10R sensor. If you want to shoot that way all the time, I would reconsider the M10-R. Why spend extra money for 47MP to reduce the actual resolution afterwards?

Just my 2 cents of course.
PS: I would trade my mint M8 for your M10-R if you are interested 🙂. Other than a mechanical shutter of 1/8000, I think it would not add much to what you already have in your line-up.

Edited August 2, 2023 by dpitt

[costa43]

Thank you everybody, some really helpful advice and suggestions. I’ll start my research, which I must confess, is part of the fun  

[costa43]

2 hours ago, dpitt said:

For me there is a distinct difference between pre-ASPH and ASPH lenses. Current Leica lenses are ASPH or APO. They are designed with extra sharpness and contrast in mind. pre-ASPH Leica lenses are generally smoother and give less contrasty results. It is easier to add contrast in post than extract it with good results.

My favorites on digital M's are:

- Summicron 40C : one of the smallest, low contrast, but can produce stunning results
- Summicron 35 pre-ASPH: a bit to wide for my taste, but types from 70s and 80s are similar to the 40C
- Summicron 50 collapsible: softest of the 50 Summicron, but gets sharper as you stop down a bit.

If this is still too sharp for you then have a look at these LTM lenses

- Summitar 50
- Summar 50

IMO, the first group is producing wonderful results because they were designed with different technology and goals in mind. They will do justice to your M10R, and produce pictures that look less digital.

The second group is showing its age in a different way, with lower performance and more issues. I think using them is more in the same league as using a filter with vaseline all the time, i.e. deliberately choosing to limit your M10R sensor. If you want to shoot that way all the time, I would reconsider the M10-R. Why spend extra money for 47MP to reduce the actual resolution afterwards?

Just my 2 cents of course.
PS: I would trade my mint M8 for your M10-R if you are interested 🙂. Other than a mechanical shutter of 1/8000, I think it would not add much to what you already have in your line-up.

Thank you. The 40mm Summicron is one I’m very much tempted to try, heard many good things and the images I’ve seen from others look really nice. Not interested in trading but I would suggest hanging onto that m8 you have, there is nothing quite like it imo. I owned one, sold it, then bought it back again. 

[costa43]

4 hours ago, Al Brown said:

@costa43 Summarit 50/1.5 and 35 pre-asph wide open are nice beer bottle bottoms we all love.

But since you asked for an opinionated view, I can wholeheartedly recommend the Old Delft Minor 35 (E39)I have even dedicated a thread to.

If all else fails, there’s always the Thambar…

The Thambar is a little too dreamy for me but I’ve not come across the Old Delft Minor before. I’ll take a look. Thank you for the recommendation. 

[costa43]

6 hours ago, otto.f said:

I found the Summicron 35 iv very nice on the M10-R and even surprisingly so. I swapped it for the APO 35 which I do not regret but I do miss it sometimes. Somehow the colors are very nice with this combination and I found it not too sharp. And why would someone pay so much for this lens to date? Because it’s very small and light. Compared to Voigtländer? Because they are bigger especially if you swear by hoods and they seem a little oversaturated which the cron35 iv has not. Try to find Adam Bonn on the M10-R images thread and you’ll see  what I mean. 

Thank you. 

[costa43]

7 hours ago, a.noctilux said:

If too sharp, I'd add a clear filter with vaseline (tricky amount...).

Or if available fine-mesh stockings, etc.

Or I can use my Summar 5cm.

I have used Summarit 1.5/5cm with hazed lens, quite good for this.

I tried also in post.

Many ways to experiment.

...

good shape Summarit 1.5/5cm well used can be "dreamy" enough seen here

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

Was this taken with an m10r?

[costa43]

8 hours ago, shirubadanieru said:

Yeah I also find that the Leica sensors with too many megapixels (M10M, M11) make the vintage lens perform better / sharper, which is good for some things but not for others (when you actually want the lenses to perform to their vintage nature hehe). 

That being said, the best vintage lenses from my POV would be:

1) Vintage yet great all rounders (soft wide open, sharp from f2.8~)

- Summicron 35mm 8e (or the LLL remake)

- Summicron Rigid 50mm 

- Lux 50mm (which you have already)

- Lux 35mm (or the voigtlander 35 f1.4 II)

 

2) Vintage lenses that are less sharp but do provide an even more unique rendering

- Nikkor 50mm f1.4 ltm

- Summicron Collapsible

- Hektor 50mm f2.5

- Elmar 35mm f3.5 / Summaron 35mm f3.5

- Summarit 50mm f1.5

Thank you for this. I have been tempted many times by the LLL 8e since it’s release. 

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[rcusick]

The 35mm summicron v4 somehow renders specially on the m10r.  Really nice colors and texture.