Light Leak first few frames of HP5

[theBear]

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Wondered if anyone has had a similar experience to this.
 

Ive a new 2022 M6 and have put 20 or so rolls though over the last few months. Mostly Portra then HP5 and one roll of XP2.
 

I’ve noticed that on all my rolls of HP5 there are some light leaks on the first few frames of every roll. This is exclusively happening on the HP5.
 

I am loading the roll in the same way every time which varies in lighting conditions yet the leaks are consistent on what appears to be the first few frames of the HP5.

 

Any thoughts on this?

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[Susie]

Welcome to the forum.

How was the HP5 developed?  As the marks are not on the Portra nor the XP2, which presumably are processed by one firm, could the light leak occur during the processing, rather than in the camera?

Edited July 20, 2023 by Susie

[hansvons]

I had this once when I left an undeveloped but exposed roll on my desk with the morning sun shining directly onto the film port. 

[jgeenen]

This is typical for light getting into the slit on the cartridge before or after exposure (after a few winds of film on the reel, the effect will be invisible). I had this typically with reused cartridges in my old film days. Always avoid changing film in full daylight, store exposed film in light tight containers. If it only affects a certain batch of film, you might complain at the manufacturer or dealer.

Last "pro" tip: Never rewind the film fully into the cartridge. Make sure that always the end of the 35mm film remains outside of the cartridge. That will help light sealing the cartridge

Johannes

Edited July 20, 2023 by jgeenen
additional information addend

[CSG123]

1 hour ago, jgeenen said:

This is typical for light getting into the slit on the cartridge before or after exposure (after a few winds of film on the reel, the effect will be invisible). I had this typically with reused cartridges in my old film days. Always avoid changing film in full daylight, store exposed film in light tight containers. If it only affects a certain batch of film, you might complain at the manufacturer or dealer.

Last "pro" tip: Never rewind the film fully into the cartridge. Make sure that always the end of the 35mm film remains outside of the cartridge. That will help light sealing the cartridge

Johannes

How do you accomplish knowing that just the end of the film remains out on rewind?

[pippy]

7 minutes ago, CSG123 said:

How do you accomplish knowing that just the end of the film remains out on rewind?

You rewind until the moment when the tension decreases abruptly. This means the film is no longer attached to the take-up spool but is not yet in the film cassette. If too much leader is sticking out the majority can easily be rewound some more by hand.

Philip.

[madNbad]

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Phillip has described it quite well. It's almost easier to feel with the angled rewind crank. Treat it like a post rewind and take your time, when the film leader comes out of the take up, you can hear it if you listen carefully. 

[250swb]

2 hours ago, jgeenen said:

 

Last "pro" tip: Never rewind the film fully into the cartridge. Make sure that always the end of the 35mm film remains outside of the cartridge. That will help light sealing the cartridge

Johannes

Except emulsion is coated onto a transparent carrier and if light can go through the base it can also travel along it. It is particularly bad to leave the leader out of the cassette with films that have an acetate base.

Edited July 20, 2023 by 250swb

[TomB_tx]

21 minutes ago, 250swb said:

Except emulsion is coated onto a transparent carrier and if light can go through the base it can also travel along it. It is particularly bad to leave the leader out of the cassette with films that have an acetate base.

For 50+ years I've always rewound the film fully into the cassette.

[Huss]

You may just have a bad batch of HP5.  I use a lot of HP5 and have never seen this on mine.  Are you developing it yourself or having someone do it for you?  If someone else, it may be on them and how they are handling your film.  Your other two emulsions are Portra and XP2 which are both C41 process so they would be handled differently than your HP5.

Feel solace in knowing it is not your camera that is at fault!

[CSG123]

3 hours ago, TomB_tx said:

For 50+ years I've always rewound the film fully into the cassette.

I've done the same.  I shoot very little film anymore but the only light leaks I recall were from reloading film into those old plastic cartridges.

[Warton]

2 hours ago, CSG123 said:

I've done the same.  I shoot very little film anymore but the only light leaks I recall were from reloading film into those old plastic cartridges.

Rewinding the film completely into cartridge has no effect on light leak. If it does it means the cartridge is defective.

Having said that, I don't like to rewinding the film completely because I like the end of film sticking out a bit so it's a bit easier to wind it onto the reel when developing.

[madNbad]

38 minutes ago, Warton said:

Rewinding the film completely into cartridge has no effect on light leak. If it does it means the cartridge is defective.

Having said that, I don't like to rewinding the film completely because I like the end of film sticking out a bit so it's a bit easier to wind it onto the reel when developing.

I always rewind the film into the cassette then use a retriever to pull out the leader, trim it and load the reel. I do keep a cassette opener in my dark tent just in case.

[250swb]

I also always rewind into the cassette, it's a professional practice to make absolutely sure you don't load the same film twice under pressure or by being forgetful. Saying 'it's never happened to me' is an accident waiting to happen. 

As for the OP's problem, are they stress marks? Perhaps forgetting which way to wind to test if the film is loaded, or tensioning the film too much? It would be useful to see where the marks are in relation to sprocket holes.

[Topsy]

Back when I shot a lot of 35mm film on 3 bodies consecutively I (and everyone else I worked with) would leave the leader out of the cassette. We would then tear off (using our teeth) the small bit of the leader and scratch into the (remaining) emulsion the ASA we'd shot it at. This would make life easier for the Darkroom Techs for developing and keep a record on the film of the ASA we'd shot at as it would show on the contact sheet.

 

Edited July 21, 2023 by Topsy
Correct typo's

[pippy]

1 hour ago, 250swb said:

I also always rewind into the cassette, it's a professional practice to make absolutely sure you don't load the same film twice under pressure or by being forgetful...

I agree wholeheartedly. In point of fact this was one of the very first things drummed into me as an assistant.

Philip.

[hansvons]

18 hours ago, jgeenen said:

Last "pro" tip: Never rewind the film fully into the cartridge. Make sure that always the end of the 35mm film remains outside of the cartridge. That will help light sealing the cartridge

Yes. And much easier handling afterwards when spooling the exposed negative on the reel for development. I fold the last 2cm to make clear that his cartridge contains exposed film and put it back into its container.

[TomB_tx]

I always use a bottle opener to pop the end off the cassette, trim the film end square and easily load on a stainless reel

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[ktmrider2]

Same as TomB_tx as I have been told your chances of scratching the film basically double if there is anything caught in the felt of the film cassette since you are pulling the film through twice vs once using a bottle opener.  Besides, I need to find some use for the old church key.

[250swb]

The film goes through the light trap twice as a best case scenario, and it all happens inside the camera if the film is fully rewound. Given film processing is all about limiting variables to aid consistency why drag the film back through the light trap yet another time to load a reel? Out of the camera and into a camera bag with the leader out is the time dust is most likely to accumulate in the felt of the light trap. People will be blaming Leica for scratched negatives before long, just wait and see 😆