New 28mm lenses from Voigtlander - including LTM

[pedaes]

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36 minutes ago, 28framelines said:

Why can’t I get the better ergonomics too, if I want 0.7m focusing?

I don't understand why you think you will not get 0.7m focusing with a lens that has the capacity to focus to 0.5m. What don't you get?

One of the key benefits of Leica's redesign of the 35mm Summilux is the ability to focus to 0.5m. There were no rants about that lens.

 

[raizans]

I have a 50/1.4 Nikkor LTM that focuses down to 16" but is only coupled to 1m.

You'll live. A diminished, frustrated life, to be sure. But you'll live.

[lct]

Been using M lenses focusing below 0.7m for decades. SA 21/3.4 (0.4m), ZM 21/4,5 (0.5m), or CV 15/4.5 (0.5m) to name a few. None needed a focus "lock" to show that the focus patch stops moving at 0.7m. This focus "lock" is a novelty since the MATE if memory serves. I have nothing against it but i'm not sure to understand why it misses some digital or film users that much 🤔

 

Edited July 15, 2023 by lct

[28framelines]

6 hours ago, pedaes said:

I don't understand why you think you will not get 0.7m focusing with a lens that has the capacity to focus to 0.5m. What don't you get?

One of the key benefits of Leica's redesign of the 35mm Summilux is the ability to focus to 0.5m. There were no rants about that lens.

 

The new Summilux has a detent that lets you know you’ve reached the “limit” of rangefinder coupling. Voigtlander lenses don’t seem to offer this so far.

[Gregm61]

…..and the Voigtlander lenses work just fine in that fashion. Anyone focusing manually SHOULD notice when the image in the rangefinder patch stops moving when the lens hits the minimum focus distance. It’s pretty darn obvious.

[lct]

4 hours ago, 28framelines said:

The new Summilux has a detent that lets you know you’ve reached the “limit” of rangefinder coupling. [...]

Same for the WATE (not MATE sorry for my typo). Such detent is not useless in that it warns when quitting RF and entering LV territory but the focus patch serves the same purpose, as suggested above, when it stops moving at that same limit. The focus patch is useless in LV mode though TBH so the detent appears like a focus aid complementing the focus patch from this viewpoint.

[Pyrogallol]

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This 1950’s Nikon Leica screw lens focuses to 18 inches ( marked 1.5 feet, not metres) and others had a click-stop at the limit of the rangefinder before you started to focus closer.

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[28framelines]

8 hours ago, Gregm61 said:

…..and the Voigtlander lenses work just fine in that fashion. Anyone focusing manually SHOULD notice when the image in the rangefinder patch stops moving when the lens hits the minimum focus distance. It’s pretty darn obvious.

It’s actually not perfectly obvious all of the time; I owned the Ultron mk2 and I would get to where I thought the focusing ended and it was often hard to get right on; close focus portraits at 0.7m was not quite right sometimes and the shot I took was out of focus (only discovered after developing the film). Maybe it’s my eyes, but the detent sounds really nice but I don’t have the money to spend $7-8k CAD on a lens that offers me that. I just don’t understand why it’s a big deal I’m complaining about this. It’s a personal issue that I expressed I wish was different; I didn’t tell any one here they were wrong when I initially made my statement about how I wish the more modern looking Type 2 of this lens had a 0.7m focusing option. It seems a few people here wish to make the thing that I’m concerned with a non-problem, but it’s valid. If I wanted to shoot film AND guess the distance, I’d shoot the more compact Rollei 35. But I don’t do that because I don’t want to guess distance. Anyway, noted, I won’t harp on about this anymore, I get it, valid concerns are welcome as long as they aren’t mine; nothing new in my life lol.

[Krycek]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb Al Brown:

All of them. The sensor megapixel count is no factor for image circle, the physical senosr size is.

Thanks, but my question is if Voigtländer lenses support the 60mpx resolution of the latest sensors. For some lenses a 60mpx sensor is a too high  resolution. I'd like to know what's the situation with Voigtländer lenses and high resolution sensors?

[Tessar.]

Just pre-ordered mine in the black 0.5m min focus aluminium version, from Robert White in the UK.  Just what I'm looking for!  

[pegelli]

40 minutes ago, Al Brown said:

All lenses support 60mpix resolution.

A reference explaining that is linked in post #20 on page 1

[BastianK]

vor 12 Stunden schrieb Tessar.:

Just pre-ordered mine in the black 0.5m min focus aluminium version, from Robert White in the UK.  Just what I'm looking for!  

I will order one of these, too.
Sadly no pre order options in Germany yet.

[Smudgerer]

24 minutes ago, BastianK said:

I will order one of these, too.
Sadly no pre order options in Germany yet.

I've pre-ordered the VM Type 2 / Black from Jo Geier at Mint and Rare in Vienna, he's usually been the fastest to deliver Voigtlander lenses in the EU.

[BastianK]

vor 11 Minuten schrieb Smudgerer:

I've pre-ordered the VM Type 2 / Black from Jo Geier at Mint and Rare in Vienna, he's usually been the fastest to deliver Voigtlander lenses in the EU.

Never ordered from there before, but will give it a try and just sent them an Email.

I used to get my Voigtländer lenses from Robert White (they also often provided review samples),
but post-Brexit this is sadly not really an option anymore.

[Smudgerer]

I've dealt with Jo Geier quite a lot, not only for Voitglander lenses but for used equipment too, and have always been more than satisfied with their customer service, the quality of the used gear offered for sale plus they are knowledgeable people to deal with.

[pgk]

13 hours ago, Krycek said:

Thanks, but my question is if Voigtländer lenses support the 60mpx resolution of the latest sensors. For some lenses a 60mpx sensor is a too high  resolution.

ANY lens will work 'better' with a higher resolution sensor because the resulting images are additive so:

lens + sensor = image and

lens + better sensor + better image

So even a poor lens will be better using a better sensor, although defining 'better', whilst apparently easy enough for a sensor if MPixels are simply higher, is fraught with difficulties. If you think about this in film terms you might vaguely equate it to shooting a lens on ISO 50 film or ISO 400. Did we have lenses which we restricted to ISO 400 film due to their inability to 'support' ISO 50?

[Krycek]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb pgk:

ANY lens will work 'better' with a higher resolution sensor because the resulting images are additive so:

lens + sensor = image and

lens + better sensor + better image

So even a poor lens will be better using a better sensor, although defining 'better', whilst apparently easy enough for a sensor if MPixels are simply higher, is fraught with difficulties. If you think about this in film terms you might vaguely equate it to shooting a lens on ISO 50 film or ISO 400. Did we have lenses which we restricted to ISO 400 film due to their inability to 'support' ISO 50?

OK, but why then does Fujifilm officially announce a list mentioning current lenses that are not recommended for the new 40MP sensor ( => lenses not powerful enough for 40MP)?

[pgk]

33 minutes ago, Krycek said:

OK, but why then does Fujifilm officially announce a list mentioning current lenses that are not recommended for the new 40MP sensor ( => lenses not powerful enough for 40MP)?

They must have determined a parameter (resolution?) at which the 'benefits' of incrased sensor MPixels are only marginaly beneficial. Unless they specify this it is difficult to decide why.

[pippy]

16 hours ago, Krycek said:

...my question is if Voigtländer lenses support the 60mpx resolution of the latest sensors. For some lenses a 60mpx sensor is a too high resolution...

As others have already said; No it isn't. Have you read the appendix to the article linked by Pegelli in post #20?

If not here's (probably) the most important part as far as your confusion is concerned but first-off an explanation of the 'MTF' acronym;

"MTF = Modulation Transfer Function. "MTF" is a measurement of the optical performance potential of a lens. MTF charts can give you a better understanding of the optical quality of various lenses."...

On to the paragraph in question;

"...MTF is somewhat of a measurement of how sharp that image would be and how much detail it contains......That would, of course, be the MTF of the entire system, camera, and lens. Lots of people think that will be ‘whichever is less of the camera and lens.’ For example, my camera can resolve 61 megapixels, but my lens can only resolve 30 megapixels, so all I can see is 30 megapixels.

That’s not how it works. How it does work is very simple math: System MTF = Camera MTF x Lens MTF. MTF maxes at 1.0 because 1.0 is perfect. So let’s say my camera MTF is 0.7, and my lens MTF is 0.7, then my system MTF is 0.49 (Lens MTF x Camera MTF)......Now, let’s say I get a much better camera with much higher resolution; the camera MTF is 0.9. The system MTF with the same lens also increases: 0.7 X 0.9 = 0.63. On the other hand, I could do the same thing if I bought a much better lens and kept it on the same camera. The camera basically never ‘out resolves the lens.’..."

Philip.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[pegelli]

1 hour ago, Krycek said:

OK, but why then does Fujifilm officially announce a list mentioning current lenses that are not recommended for the new 40MP sensor ( => lenses not powerful enough for 40MP)?

They don't say "they're not recommended", but they say (bolding is mine):

The list specifies our selection of lenses that have high resolution performance from edge to edge at maximum aperture, allowing you to fully experience all that the 40MP sensor has to offer. Lenses not listed will also allow you to experience the improved resolution performance of the 40MP sensor

 

And a question to you: who would you rather believe to tell the whole story, the marketing communication of a company trying to sell you more expensive high-end lenses or an independent source providing a fundamental explanation of how resolution of lenses and sensor actually work together to achieve a certain resolution in the final photo?

Edited July 17, 2023 by pegelli