Which vintage 50?

[trickness]

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As I get older and shoot more, sharpness and ultimate resolution become less important to my work. I truly adore my Karbe 50 Lux M ASPH, but I would really like to get a 50mm complement to it that has inherent aberrations, glow, flaws and character. Ideally M mount, and not break the bank expensive (meaning below 5k USD). I’m kind of looking for a more David Lynch than Christopher Nolan rendering 😆 - any suggestions? Again things like sharpness edge to edge are of zero importance to me. Using on SL2 BTW. Any suggestions greatly appreciated - thanks!

Edited July 1, 2023 by trickness

[pedaes]

27 minutes ago, trickness said:

below 5k

Below 5k what? Seems very healthy budget for all main currencies!

Most 50mm lenses going way back perform well. You start running into age related issues with older lenses - which you might find adds the character you seek.

Edited July 1, 2023 by pedaes

[Guest]

50mm Summilux pre-asph E46 springs to mind.

I can also recommend the 50mm Summicron V3 - can be had rather cheaply, but really love that lens. Great character and medium contrast.

[Olaf_ZG]

Keep it simple: buy a sonnar 😎

[romanus53]

Summar, Summitar, Summarit

[TomB_tx]

On an SL2 a Summicron-R might be interesting and inexpensive. The R v1 is similar to the M v3, and the R v2 much like the M v4-5. So the R v1 (or M v3) might be worth a look.

[84bravo]

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A late coated Summitar is sharp and has character that is unmatched by modern designs. Very cheap as well.

[spydrxx]

Your question will draw quite a varied series of replies. In my experience I'd ask the following questions:

1. What is your budget?

2. Are you willing to consider LTM as well as M mount lenses?

3. Are you  willing to consider brands other than Leica?

4. What look are you trying to achieve?

5. Do you have a Leica dealer or other camera store which may carry a wide range of gear including Leica gear nearby where you can try out a selection of lenses?

Personally, given your limited info in the original post, I'd consider any of the early Leica 50s from the late 1930s on up until the 1970s as well as the Canon and Nikon equivalents (LTM). Whatever you choose, enjoy shooting with it.

[Ko.Fe.]

Personally, but on film, I have seen it with Summarit M 50 1.5. Uncoated Summar 50/2 was giving even more.

Both lenses are not just old, but glass is extremely soft.

If copy is clean and undamaged it renders as it should.

Finding clean and undamaged copy might require extra $$$, which you have allocated.  

If you will go for  one of those, please, add protective filter. Glass is really very, very soft. 

 

Edited July 1, 2023 by Ko.Fe.

[FrozenInTime]

Try the Voigtländer 50/1.5 Heliar Classic - brand new old school rendering at a very friendly price.

 

[lifeandmylens]

I’ve tried many of the vintage 50s. Including all versions of the Summilux, Summicron Rigid, Summarit, and several versions of the Noct f1.

My favorites are the v1 summilux, the rigid, and the noct e58 f1.   

I think almost all the lenses from this era are nice options with character that will compliment your asph.

[dynaerik]

With that budget you could almost go for an old noctilux

[lct]

21 hours ago, trickness said:

[...] I truly adore my Karbe 50 Lux M ASPH, but I would really like to get a 50mm complement to it that has inherent aberrations, glow, flaws and character. Ideally M mount, and not break the bank expensive (meaning below 5k USD) [...] things like sharpness edge to edge are of zero importance to me. Using on SL2 [...]

Aside from the Summilux 50/1.4 asph v1 and a recently acquired Nokton 50/1.5 SC v2 i have not enough experience with, my favorite fast 50s, on mirrorless cameras, are the Summilux-M 50/1.4 v3 and the C-Sonnar 50/1.5. Both well-known lenses with a few flaws like color fringing (Summilux) or focus shift (Sonnar) but the latter is not a problem on mirrorless cameras. Both lenses are almost flare-free but they have a different character, better trying them in person before deciding.

[Alberti]

Just one: as far as I recognize it, C Nolan gave M8 to C Bale to brandish and kept the Old Nocti.

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[darylgo]

The sleeper in Leica for character, speed and glow is the 50 R Summilux, ver 2 with 55mm filter thread.  The cinema guys want the newer one (e60) so the price of the older glass formula has not been bumped much.  Safari edition is cool.  The lens glows at f1.4, more like the ver. 1 50 Summilux only better (more glow) and stopped down it plays well with digital sensors, less contrast and more sharpness.  I find this lens my favorite for character, over the ver. 1 and 2 Summilux M and Noctilux 50/1.  On an SL it's magic.  The old R lenses are solid, metal and glass.  The Novoflex adapter between the lens and SL body is bullet proof.  When I tried this lens at a Leica dealer I had no intention of buying it.  Once home and seeing the images in Lightroom I couldn't believe how perfect this lens was for the vintage look, it simply flies under the radar.  

 

[lifeandmylens]

6 minutes ago, darylgo said:

The sleeper in Leica for character, speed and glow is the 50 R Summilux, ver 2 with 55mm filter thread.  The cinema guys want the newer one (e60) so the price of the older glass formula has not been bumped much.  Safari edition is cool.  The lens glows at f1.4, more like the ver. 1 50 Summilux only better (more glow) and stopped down it plays well with digital sensors, less contrast and more sharpness.  I find this lens my favorite for character, over the ver. 1 and 2 Summilux M and Noctilux 50/1.  On an SL it's magic.  The old R lenses are solid, metal and glass.  The Novoflex adapter between the lens and SL body is bullet proof.  When I tried this lens at a Leica dealer I had no intention of buying it.  Once home and seeing the images in Lightroom I couldn't believe how perfect this lens was for the vintage look, it simply flies under the radar.  

 

Any samples?  Would love to see.

[darylgo]

3 hours ago, lifeandmylens said:

Any samples?  Would love to see.

Not that I can post for several months.  Here's a few write-ups:

http://women-and-dreams.blogspot.com/2014/06/leica-summilux-r-50mm-f14-e55.html

and this one using the e60 version that the cinematographers love:

https://www.streetsilhouettes.com/home/2016/12/8/leica-sl-50mm-f14-summilux-m-asph-vs-50mm-f14-summilux-r

[trickness]

9 hours ago, Al Brown said:

I get what you want, I was in the same boat and I own the Karbe 50 lux ASPH as well. Just like you I was after a 50mm that has inherent aberrations, glow, flaws and character and I am a big fan of Nolan's look plus I also loved what Zack Snyder did in Army of the Dead so I dug and dug and found this little gem (my article followed):
https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/376363-ms-optical-rd-50mm-11-sonnetar-by-miyazaki-sadayasu-a-personal-view/

This lens does whatever Snyder had in the movie where he even DoP'ed the scenes wide open and basically it mimics the 1960's superfast normal lenses like the Canon "Dream" f/0.95mm and Canon f/1.2 nifty fifties, but with rangefinder coupling. All the desired and sought after flaws galore yet there is enough retained sharpness for almost any use. Plus it is now a collector's item and the price will only go up. Get a good early copy and enjoy your Myazaki creation.

 

Really fascinating lens and lens builder, I had no awareness of this. Seems like build quality is not part of the equation but certainly the images look interesting. Thank you so much for posting this I’m going to look more into it.

[Huss]

On 7/1/2023 at 7:23 AM, trickness said:

As I get older and shoot more, sharpness and ultimate resolution become less important to my work. I truly adore my Karbe 50 Lux M ASPH, but I would really like to get a 50mm complement to it that has inherent aberrations, glow, flaws and character. Ideally M mount, and not break the bank expensive (meaning below 5k USD). I’m kind of looking for a more David Lynch than Christopher Nolan rendering 😆 - any suggestions? Again things like sharpness edge to edge are of zero importance to me. Using on SL2 BTW. Any suggestions greatly appreciated - thanks!

The 7A 50 1.1.  You can buy it new for about $350, used for about $200-ish if you get lucky.  As it is a new production lens no need to worry about haze/fungus etc.

Wide open it has a gorgeous soft vintage look.  Stopped down it sharpens up nicely.  And because you are using an SL2 - no issues with focus shift.

TVO has nice write up - and that is coming from a Leica blue blood!

https://www.overgaard.dk/7artisans-for-Leica-M-rangefinder-and-Sony-Canon-and-Fujifilm-50mm-f-1-1-Sonnar-review-and-user-report.html

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[mediumformula]

I would get a Summicron V1 Collapsible in good condition.