Summar conversion

[Giuliobigazzi]

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Here is summar 186572, delivered on 14.11.33 as a nickel rigid model, now chrome collapsible. Export version in feet. Leica has no record of this being converted, and in the hahne list it’s not a conversion but a rigid. Does anybody know if conversions like this happened outside the factory or might have it simply not been written down?

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[willeica]

2 hours ago, Giuliobigazzi said:

Here is summar 186572, delivered on 14.11.33 as a nickel rigid model, now chrome collapsible. Export version in feet. Leica has no record of this being converted, and in the hahne list it’s not a conversion but a rigid. Does anybody know if conversions like this happened outside the factory or might have it simply not been written down?

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Have a look at Item No 71 in the Leitz Auction for next Saturday, 10th June. This is an even earlier conversion from a rigid to a collapsible Summar. There are high quality photos there which you can use for comparison purposes. It is hard to judge from your photo, but this could be just a factory conversion with poor 'book keeping'. You would be the best judge when you see the images from the Leitz catalogue.

William 

Edited June 7, 2023 by willeica

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[Giuliobigazzi]

Just had a look, yeh looks similar apart from it being nickel. Mine is also coated. Unless these coatings were done later, these conversions may have happened post war. 

[willeica]

1 hour ago, Giuliobigazzi said:

Just had a look, yeh looks similar apart from it being nickel. Mine is also coated. Unless these coatings were done later, these conversions may have happened post war. 

I have some coated Summars, some I suspect were prewar and others were post war. I did a big post here some years ago about 11 or 12 Summars that are in my collection. If you can't find it, come back to me. 

Best Wishes

William 

[Giuliobigazzi]

I just checked the hahne list and 167130 from the auction is also showing as a rigid model. The latest conversion on there is 1943, so who knows these could be post  war conversions as coating was first introduced around 1946

[willeica]

18 minutes ago, Giuliobigazzi said:

I just checked the hahne list and 167130 from the auction is also showing as a rigid model. The latest conversion on there is 1943, so who knows these could be post  war conversions as coating was first introduced around 1946

As I have mentioned before, you should never assume anything when it comes to old Leica items. These could be any of the above. Nickel plating had long since ceased by 1943, but nickel parts could have been lying about the factory. I have seen prewar lenses that were coated, possibly by parties outside the factory. The conversion to collapsible is less likely to have happened outside the factory. Coating as a standard practice was started in the early post war years. I'm not sure where Hahne got the information, but there is a lot less on record about lenses than there is about cameras. I have a IIIc that was converted to a IIIf BD in the 1950s, but all the records say is that it came back to the factory without saying what was done to it.

I hope that the Leitz catalogue photos have confirmed that your lens is a 'genuine' conversion.

William