Returning to Digital Editing - Novice Level - PhotoShop, Lightroom or Capture One

[lencap]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Greetings!

I tried searching, but couldn't find a direct recommendation for selecting among the popular editing software programs.   Years ago I tried learning PhotoShop/Lightroom, but found the learning curve very challenging.  I turned to Apple Photos as a simple tool.  Now, with higher MP sensors, sharper lenses, and larger files I realize my lack of editing skills limits the potential of my newly acquired SL2-S/Summicron-SL 50mm ASPH combo.

The vast majority of my images are candid single/small group people images, captured in natural or available light without any lighting tools/reflectors/etc.  I've taken several documentary classes, realizing that I like that type of image creation, but it relies on candid shooting in all lighting conditions (85% of my images).  I don't shoot street photography very much (less than 1%).  The balance of my images is landscape/art shots (15%).  Video is a very occasional feature.

I tried searching the Adobe website, but the myriad of options (Lightroom Classic, Creative Cloud, different storage plans, optional add ons) makes it difficult to understand which would best serve my needs.  I primarily shoot the 50mm Leica SL lens (90% of my images), with the balance handled by the Panasonic Lumix S 20-60 zoom.  In the past I typically did simple edits - AWB, some sliders for contrast/brightness.  Very little extensive layering, or other advanced tools - largely because I never learned how to use them.  I also don't favor heavily processed images - I'm not making a judgment on how others may enjoy those images, it's just not a style that I enjoy.  I prefer planning my composition before shooting, with editing being a necessary workflow, not a primary feature.

Now I'd like to become at least minimally proficient with basic/midlevel editing skills.  Is the CreativeCloud the best option, or something else?  My tools are varied: 2021 iPad Pro 12.9" with the M1 chip, 2017 iMac 27" with 40GB memory & Intel chip, 2020 MacBook Air basic memory/storage M1 chip, 2021 iPad 10.5" basic storage/memory.  I'm very flexible on hardware/software tools.  

I also considered Capture One, but from my limited understanding that program is targeted for more advanced uses, like tethering and medium format sensors.  If I'm wrong, I'm willing to consider that as well.  

My goal is to learn the tools well enough to enjoy the camera kit I just bought, and to help create the types of images that I visualized when I created them.  Any suggestions are welcome, along with comments about workflow/storage.

And just to complete my shooting tools, I also have an iPhone 14 Pro with the 48MP sensor using the extensive Apple ecosystem for editing/storing/sharing images and video.  As sad as I am to admit this, I find myself using the iPhone more than I'd like to, primarily because of the ease of use, as well as for fast/easy edits.  For example, I'm attending a friend's 90th birthday this weekend, traveling nearly 1,000 miles to get there.  She is frail but still feisty and fun.  It's a once in a lifetime event, and we've been friends for over half of her life.  I don't want to miss any shots, and while I'll have the Leica kit, I'll also have the iPhone 14 Pro.  It's related to my lack of familiarity with the newly acquired SL2-S/Summicron combo I just bought.  I just got the printed Leica manual, and will take some time to get through all 300 pages.  

It reminds me why I shot film for so long - load camera/compose/capture/go to local camera store and have them process/print.  Before you ask, I have considered returning to film, but my eyesight isn't very good as a senior, and I can no longer capture sharp focus on the M body cameras.  I've posted several comments about my photo journey in various sections of this forum.  My thanks to all for the replies/comments/suggestions.  This is quite a skilled and helpful group!

Thank you in advance for the help.

Edited June 7, 2023 by lencap

[Tom Johnston]

I use Capture One, Creative Cloud, and Lightroom Classic... Sometimes I find one or the other works better for a particular image, while other times one of the other programs does just fine. I also work back and forth between them.

I shoot RAW and jpeg and usually start with Capture One processing the RAW file, then after initial adjustments, save in Adobe Photoshop as a PSD file; then further refinements in Photoshop. Finished image is backed-up and saved as PSD before resizing for web presentation as an 8-bit jpeg.

I usually use my good ones on my website/blog and post the jpegs to my Flickr acct.

Edited June 7, 2023 by Tom Johnston

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[Jeff S]

People tend to like the software that they take time to learn and gain comfort.  Each can be learned through either videos, books or workshops, depending on one’s aptitudes and preferences. Techniques can be easily learned; the hard part is having clear output/rendering goals, and deciding when, where and to what degree to apply various techniques to achieve them.

I subscribe to the Adobe Photographer Plan, which includes LR, LR Classic and Photoshop, for ten bucks a month. I typically rely on LR Classic and do not use any cloud storage, instead using local drives.  Organizing one’s files is as important as editing techniques.

This thread provides some good learning resources:

 

Jeff

Edited June 7, 2023 by Jeff S

[otto.f]

3 hours ago, lencap said:

but from my limited understanding that program is targeted for more advanced uses,

I don't get that picture so much, I use C1 because I see better results from it than from LR. Now and then, these 'high-pro' (what's that?)  features come along in their mails, but I don't care and they won't bother anyone. Sometimes I get the impression that the price is higher because of them, but in the end it costs me about the same as paying 10 bucks a month for Adobe.

Edited June 7, 2023 by otto.f

[sometimesmaybe]

3 hours ago, lencap said:

The vast majority of my images are candid single/small group people images, captured in natural or available light without any lighting tools/reflectors/etc.

if youre just editing people - consider starting off with Luminar Neo - easy to use. mostly sliders. 

the learning curve is less steep, but you'll still need to watch a few youtube videos, but it's reasonably straightforward 

[otto.f]

4 minutes ago, sometimesmaybe said:

if youre just editing people - consider starting off with Luminar Neo - easy to use. mostly sliders. 

the learning curve is less steep, but you'll still need to watch a few youtube videos, but it's reasonably straightforward 

I use Luminar 4 alongside C1. It is quite straightforward indeed and I find it very handy for a quick overview of all my images and when have to find a specific photo or series. It's not expensive for a good price/quality balance.

[jaapv]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Another program ito consider is ON1. 

[rolu]

If people is your main subject, the skintone tool in Capture One might be interesting for you. (Maybe still more if lighting conditions can be difficult in available light? )

[LocalHero1953]

I have used Lightroom Classic for many years and I'm comfortable with it. I use Photoshop from time to time for more difficult images. Plenty of people happily use Capture One as well; from all I've read it is no more an 'advanced' editing solution than Lightroom. Just pick one and get down to learning it - you'll have bigger issues to worry about than which package to use!

Lightroom Classic probably has a bigger ecosystem of learning tools, as recommended in the thread linked by Jeff a couple of posts above. Unless you don't like to financial commitment, take out a basic 'photography' subscription to get you Lightroom Classic and Photoshop, and start using just Lightroom Classic - don't think about Photoshop, Lightroom CC, cloud storage etc until you want to. 

I started using Lightroom with v3 in 2011, so it is difficult for me to recall how easy it was to learn! As someone brought up with darkroom practice and terminology, I found the basic approach in Lightroom was reasonably intuitive. Sliders controlling Exposure, Contrast, Highlights, Shadows, Whites, Blacks and Saturation were all I needed to start with, together with White Balance adjustments.

[pgk]

5 hours ago, lencap said:

Years ago I tried learning PhotoShop/Lightroom, but found the learning curve very challenging.

I've been using Photoshop since (at least) v.4. Its really as complex as you want it to be. I probably spend as much time with the Raw conversion as I do in Photoshop itself. I really don't want to spend lots of time using software. The thing is that you really need to understand what you want to do with your photos and this dictates how little or how much time you spend using software. The software itself is relevant only to the point of 'will it do what you need it to' and 'is it straightforward to do this'.

I recently adjusted a couple of photos in front of their end user whose comment was that I was very fast using Photoshop. I don't think that I am; I simply know the pathways through the software which produce the image I intend it to. I think that if you can define your requirements (workflow) then this will help you decide which piece of software will work for you by trying your requirements in demo versions.

[Anbaric]

6 hours ago, lencap said:

I tried searching the Adobe website, but the myriad of options (Lightroom Classic, Creative Cloud, different storage plans, optional add ons) makes it difficult to understand which would best serve my needs.

...

I also considered Capture One, but from my limited understanding that program is targeted for more advanced uses, like tethering and medium format sensors.  If I'm wrong, I'm willing to consider that as well.

The best comparison of the basic Adobe options is probably this chart:

https://www.adobe.com/creativecloud/photography/compare-plans.html

The 'Lightroom' plan just gives you the modern, streamlined cloud versions of Lightroom you can run on your desktop, mobile devices and in a browser, and keeps your photos primarily on Adobe's cloud storage.

The Photography plans also give you the traditional 'Classic' desktop version of Lightroom, which is somewhat more powerful than the cloud versions but is designed to work primarily from local storage, plus both desktop and mobile versions of Photoshop. There are now two versions of the Photography plan, one with the same 1TB storage as the Lightroom plan, another with minimal (20GB) cloud storage.

If you want Photoshop or classic Lightroom, you'll need one of the Photography plans. If you want to use Adobe's cloud integration (e.g., picking up on a mobile device where you left off editing on the desktop), you may need one of the 1TB plans. There are also options to upgrade storage beyond 1TB. On the other hand, if you work primarily on the desktop and just use a third party cloud provider for backups, you can buy storage more cheaply than Adobe sells it for.

For a comparison of Lightroom and Lightroom Classic, see:

https://www.lightroomqueen.com/lightroom-cc-vs-classic-features/

I wouldn't say Capture One is mainly for medium format or tethering - I imagine most users have more mainstream systems. There are both monthly rental and purchase options. Purchasing it isn't cheap, and the updates stop quite soon, so you may need to purchase it again if you buy an unsupported camera a year or two later. Of course if you don't upgrade your gear very often, you might use the same version for 5 or 10 years and save rather a lot on monthly charges. I think the raw conversion results are particularly impressive, at least on the (non-Leica) systems I've tried it with. When choosing any raw converter, it's really worth making your own comparisons of the quality of the conversions and how easy it is to get (e.g.) the colours you want or expect, perhaps using matched in-camera jpegs as reference points if you are happy with them.

There are many other options, see for example:

https://havecamerawilltravel.com/lightroom-alternatives/

If you want a Photoshop rather than a Lightroom alternative, Affinity Photo is particularly good and reasonably priced:

https://affinity.serif.com/photo/

[irenedp]

I use Lightroom as a catalog -it's really very good for that- and Photoshop for editing, although I may do some general exposure adjustments in Lightroom. 

I also use Capture One for a Phase One IQ4 system. Capture One as a catalogue is pretty bad, but its functionality as a developing and editing software is somewhere between Lightroom and Photoshop. It is a good alternative if you don't want to spend a lot of time learning how to edit in Photoshop, which can become really overwhelming in its complexity. 

If you have a lot of photographs and need an easy way to access and review them, Lightroom is better. If your volumes are low, Capture One is better, as its misses are more on the cataloguing part, but its editing capacity is clearly superior.

[Jeff S]

I would be careful about statements regarding editing “superiority,” particularly given continual upgrades for any given software, as well as differences in user requirements.  Lightroom Classic, for instance, is a dramatically more full featured software today than it was just a few years ago. My need for and use of Photoshop has dwindled accordingly.

Jeff

[Luke_Miller]

I've used Lightroom (previously ACR/Photoshop) and Capture One for many years.  Before that Nikon Capture.  All produced excellent results and the current ones get better with each new release.  I suggest you get trial versions of the mainstream image processors discussed in this thread and pick the one that is easiest for you to use.  That will prove to be the "best" for your purpose.

[luetz]

"Horses for courses"...the longer you use an editing software the more proficient you become.  Much like firmware updates on your equipment, version updates will keep your chosen software current.  Anyone of the editing programs offered at a competitive price are more than able to give excellent results.

In my case LR Classic gives me all the editing options I want in addition to the quick "Auto" button in the develop module when in a hurry.

Good luck in your search....

[hansvons]

13 hours ago, lencap said:

Now I'd like to become at least minimally proficient with basic/midlevel editing skills.  Is the CreativeCloud the best option, or something else?

Yes.

And that comes from a daily C1 user. Lightroom CC is an excellent start for your journey. It works on either of your devices because images will be stored in the Adobe Cloud and accessible anywhere. Plus, the learning curve is relatively flat. If you feel limited by Lightroom CC, you can upgrade to Lightroom Classic because it's part of your subscription. Stay away from Photoshop. It's a superb tool for skilled hands but a bad entry programme for raw image editing.

Capture One is made for people who shoot projects regularly and need a project-based and fast-paced editing solution, allowing client-supervised sessions. Think of wedding photographers, photographers who shoot for clients/agencies, and journalists. It has a robust tethering interface and unmatched culling abilities. Its grading abilities are also unmatched, offering a layered workflow but requiring more profound knowledge. If editing time is stealing too much time, then take a look at C1.

Most hobbyists don't need that; they edit images for pleasure in their free time. Lightroom Classic has a similar target group, explicitly targeting pros who need a robust library, but it feels more accessible to non-professional photographers (at least, that is what I sense). All other solutions have hobbyists in mind, including Lightroom CC. That can be a good thing. Please note that the term professional in that context means only that time can be of the essence and deadlines loom. It says nothing about the quality of the photography.

Edited June 7, 2023 by hansvons

[dpitt]

15 hours ago, Jeff S said:

...

I subscribe to the Adobe Photographer Plan, which includes LR, LR Classic and Photoshop, for ten bucks a month. I typically rely on LR Classic and do not use any cloud storage, instead using local drives.  Organizing one’s files is as important as editing techniques.

This thread provides some good learning resources:

 

Jeff

I think this subscription plan has all you need to get the most out of your SL2-S combo without complicating it too much. I have used LR, Capture One Pro and other freeware software like Dartkable and Rawtherapee. Currently I am using C1P, but that is mostly because I dislike any subscription program for software, not necessarily because I find C1P to be superior to LR. They are different and each one has its strong points.

10 years ago I could have recomended Apple Aperture, but Apple stopped that path. LR now has the smallest learning curve if you come from Apple Fotos. Most of the controls are very intuitive. You will have to learn quite a bit compared to Fotos, but for normal things you would do in a typical wet darkroom process, you only have to use 10% of all the possibilities of the LR Adobe Photographer plan.

Start with the basics of LR now and decide later on if you want to do more and invest the time to master other tools and possibly add plugins for even more control.

[Olaf_ZG]

@LenscapI guess you need to define what you want and how much of it you want: there are people who like to work for hours on a photo or computer and some want to keep it to a minimum.

so, how much time would you like to sit behind a computer? 

furthermore: what would you like to do? Only standard work like grading/toning and some dodging/burning? Or would you like to create a new reality and male fe your models 30 years younger?

 I myself want to spend as little time as possible behind a computer. LR here really makes it easy with quick masking so I can dodge/burn quickly. But then, coming from c1, colour grading is bad.

Photoshop will have the biggest learning curve as so much can be done, which is fun on those long winternights…

 

[lencap]

Thanks for the comments - much appreciated.  They have made me clarify my intent.  So far:

1)  Image composition remains my top priority;

2)  "Telling a story" with my images is equally important.  That story can be very simple visually - a simple snap of a person; or more controlled - person/task/emotion.  In any event having a story in mind with the image creation helps me decide what I want to say, and how I want to say it;

3)  Photo Editing should allow me to use (1) & (2) efficiently with minimal fuss, but also with the skill to "touch up" an image if needed.

By way of further understanding, I think back to taking classes to earn a Documentary Studies Certification at Duke University years ago.  In that series of classes I worked in both photo and video formats.  While I found video more absorbing, it also was far more challenging to convey the message of my subject, and to learn the tools/craft.  The viewer needed access to some form of video screen, which was in the early life stages of iPads and similar tools.  Photos, on the other hand, were just beginning their relentless shift into digital, and that medium was growing rapidly.  I developed black/white film, printed various sized images.  Digital was well supported by Apple (various digital editing tools, including video) and I grew to embrace the Apple ecosystem, which was known back then as a "creator's toolbox".  

I found photos more compelling, easier to distribute (no YouTube back then) and scalable to the viewer's needs (large/small print/color or B&W).  My first serious documentary project was dealing with patients in Hospice care.  Interviewing these brave souls, often in very difficult physical/emotional situations, was very delicate.  I always got written permission, tried to be "invisible" and would always allow family members to have full say in whether or not the images could be used in my project(s), even when I had fully signed and approved releases.  Some things are more important than a project, and protecting the privacy of all involved was my goal then, and remains so now.    

In that environment M body Leica cameras/lenses excel, but I soon realized that because of very variable light conditions film was not a preferred medium.  The last thing I wanted to do was have flash photography, or brightly lit rooms when interacting with patients and their families.  As a hospice volunteer myself for many years I understood how quickly things can change.  I moved to the M9 from my M7, shooting at higher ISOs than film would provide, and Summicron lenses worked well providing more than acceptable image quality in natural light.  I typically shot for greater depth of field, helpful in changing light conditions, but no so helpful with limited range ISO film.  Clearly sensors have come a long way in the past decade or so, but the idea of discrete shooting and being invisible is still my goal in all my images.

That's why I settled on the SL2-S and Summicron-SL 50mm/ASPH lens combo.  It has excellent low light capabilities, can shoot nearly silently, and with a robust EVF capturing sharp focus in all light conditions is vastly easier than using film and M body cameras.  That doesn't mean that I love digital over film, it simply means that to create the images I desired with the limitations described, digital is the best solution.

So, finally, my editing tools should help me craft the mood/feeling of the concept of my image with minimal fuss and processing time.  It has to cope with changing lighting conditions (AWB or fixed Kelvin settings), occasional "quick takes", often without the ability to compose or set the scene.  In some ways it is like street photography, but there is also a keen awareness of the subjects involved and the desire to honor them and learn the lessons of their life journey regardless of the setting or locations.  Whatever editing tools make this desire closer to reality is what I'm seeking.

Even though that documentary project is no longer active, I remember vividly how emotional and challenging it was for all involved, and how much the families appreciated the candid minimally staged images of their loved ones during incredibly challenging circumstances.  I tried to revive this project with more refined digital tools compared to the earlier ones I used, but during the re-shooting of the new project COVID hit and all of the visitation and shooting projects stopped cold.  I haven't revived them, and don't expect that I will, but I never forgot the power of creating images that had an strong story to tell, and trying to convey that story without embellishment is what keeps me shooting even now.  My images are of family members/friends primarily, but capturing that special facial expression, emotion or closeness in context and with some technical proficiency is what keeps me in the Leica family.  I just didn't get the same sense of occasion with other brands or systems.  It reminds me of my dad teaching me how to use tools - "Use the right tool for the job, keep them clean and ready to use all the time".  That's what I want my editing tool to do - to contribute to creating art, with the emphasis on the image, not the process.

Edited June 7, 2023 by lencap

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[Olaf_ZG]

Reading the above, I would say you don’t need an extensive processing tool: colour correction, may be some cropping and dodging/burning.

 I used c1 for many years and it is a great tool, but with a steep learning curve.

 My advise to you is to take LR, and may be one set of presets for colour grading and that’s it.