Alan Friedman Posted June 2, 2023 Share #1 Posted June 2, 2023 Advertisement (gone after registration) I have employed digital cameras with astronomical telescopes to photograph subjects in our solar system from my urban Buffalo, NY backyard for about 25 years. Telescopes have not changed much during this time but the cameras and image processing techniques have changed quite a lot. In the early years of this avocation, the planets and the moon were my main focus. Imaging the planets and lunar features in high resolution does not require dark skies but it does need a steady atmosphere - good "seeing" (something Buffalo rarely has) and a large aperture telescope. The cameras for this work are usually scientific grade streaming cameras with small monochrome sensors that are mounted in the focuser of a telescope where an eyepiece would normally be placed. These cameras can capture streams of hundreds or thousands of frames which can later be analyzed by software to glean the sharpest frames and then stacked to a single merged result with improved signal/noise ratio. This stacking provides headroom for sharpening and further image processing. In 2009 I began imaging the sun in various wavelengths of the visible spectrum which became the focus of my work in the years following. The website in my signature is devoted to my solar astrophotography. Pretty much every digital camera I've owned has made its way to the focuser of my telescopes. They are usually limited to capturing eclipses and moon portraits - events that lend themselves to being snapped in a single exposure rather than by averaging many frames together from a streaming camera. The other night the first quarter moon was high in the spring sky and called out for a test run with my new M11 monochrom. I've had a camera adapter for Nikon F mount dating back to the 5mp D1x (my first digital camera). It is basically a 2" open tube with a Nikkor F lens mount on one side that slides into the 2" focuser that is standard on all my telescopes. I have a Novoflex Nikon F-L adapter that I use with the Leica SL-2s and just got a Novoflex Nikon F-M adapter for the M11. These are expensive but nicely made and do the job well. The 2" adapter is threaded for 48mm filters which is an important addition - both to limit dust falling on the open sensor and also to narrow the bandwidth of light, which helps quite a lot to improve the stability of the image when shooting at a long focal length. With my streaming cameras I often use a 9nm wide red filter centered at the hydrogen alpha wavelength (656nm) which works very well with the mono streaming cameras to increase contrast and calm the air movement. I used this filter the other night when testing on the moon. In retrospect, it might be worth experimenting with a narrowband filter in the green or perhaps the shorter wavelengths of red to improve the light sensitivity of the set-up. Using the M11 with live view was really a pleasure. It delivered a clear image right out of the box - which was not always the case with the SL2-s, perhaps because I had not remembered to set it to fully manual mode. Focusing with image magnification was very easy and accurate. I used a 6" (155mm) aperture apochromatic telescope made by Astro-Physics and experimented with a couple of tele-extenders to increase the image scale. The image below was shot either at a 2000mm or 3000mm focal length. The moon was longer than the sensor so two exposures were combined in Photoshop. Good results will always require excellent seeing and the seeing was very good on this evening. The sky was still blue (seeing is often good right at sundown) - the sun had just about set - but the deep red filter blackened the sky to nighttime levels. I moved through a number of exposure settings, but in the end I realized that I needed to image as close to base ISO as possible with as fast a shutter as possible to freeze the seeing in a single snap. Next time I will work more diligently on the settings. A reduced jpeg from the session is attached below. I also included a landscape shot through a 720nm IR pass filter done to test the camera's sensitivity in near IR... it is very good! All in all, it was a positive result that encourages more experimentation with M monochrome based astrophotography. I hope to add future results to this thread and hope you will too. clear skies! Alan Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 8 2 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/377812-using-the-m11-with-a-telescope/?do=findComment&comment=4785820'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 2, 2023 Posted June 2, 2023 Hi Alan Friedman, Take a look here Using the M11 with a telescope. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
mediumformula Posted June 2, 2023 Share #2 Posted June 2, 2023 Fantastic. Thank you for explaining this intricate process. I'd love to see you zoom into one of those craters on the DNG file to see how much detail the M11M captures! Also great to know about the infrared capabilities of the M11M. I need to get a 720nm filter now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
drjonb Posted June 2, 2023 Share #3 Posted June 2, 2023 Apologies for intruding into your thread, but perhaps a couple of my recent moon attempts with an SL2-S and new Sigma 60-600 L mount lens (with 1.4x extender) may be of interest. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/377812-using-the-m11-with-a-telescope/?do=findComment&comment=4785853'>More sharing options...
drjonb Posted June 2, 2023 Share #4 Posted June 2, 2023 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/377812-using-the-m11-with-a-telescope/?do=findComment&comment=4785854'>More sharing options...
drjonb Posted June 2, 2023 Share #5 Posted June 2, 2023 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 2 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/377812-using-the-m11-with-a-telescope/?do=findComment&comment=4785856'>More sharing options...
drjonb Posted June 2, 2023 Share #6 Posted June 2, 2023 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/377812-using-the-m11-with-a-telescope/?do=findComment&comment=4785859'>More sharing options...
Alan Friedman Posted June 3, 2023 Author Share #7 Posted June 3, 2023 Advertisement (gone after registration) 3 hours ago, drjonb said: Apologies for intruding into your thread, but perhaps a couple of my recent moon attempts with an SL2-S and new Sigma 60-600 L mount lens (with 1.4x extender) may be of interest. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Absolutely… thanks for sharing them. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
david strachan Posted June 3, 2023 Share #8 Posted June 3, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, drjonb said: Apologies for intruding into your thread, but perhaps a couple of my recent moon attempts with an SL2-S and new Sigma 60-600 L mount lens (with 1.4x extender) may be of interest. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! That's lovely too Drjon... Alan and you show the better moon pics are taken at various phases...not at full moon. ... Edited June 3, 2023 by david strachan 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
drjonb Posted June 3, 2023 Share #9 Posted June 3, 2023 7 hours ago, david strachan said: That's lovely too Drjon... Alan and you show the better moon pics are taken at various phases...not at full moon. ... I thought that this article would be of interest to you and Alan if you haven't seen it. You are quite right, the most detailed images of the moon are the ones along the transition/terminator when the angle of the sun provides the shadows and contrast which show up the relief on the surface and give a 3D effect. My ambition is to try and emulate the image in that article…nothing like overreaching! https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-8284295/Astrophotographer-captures-detailed-pictures-Moons-craters.html 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Friedman Posted June 3, 2023 Author Share #10 Posted June 3, 2023 5 hours ago, drjonb said: I thought that this article would be of interest to you and Alan if you haven't seen it. You are quite right, the most detailed images of the moon are the ones along the transition/terminator when the angle of the sun provides the shadows and contrast which show up the relief on the surface and give a 3D effect. My ambition is to try and emulate the image in that article…nothing like overreaching! https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-8284295/Astrophotographer-captures-detailed-pictures-Moons-craters.html The terminator provides the most dramatic lighting for observing and imaging the moon and eyes are usually drawn there first. I've seen Andy's constructed image and other attempts at this type of montage, showing the moon as if lit from earth with all the sun's rays hitting from the same angle. To my eye the image appears as a pancake rather than in 3D but that is just my experience. Certainly it parallels how many approach terrestrial photography with Leica monochrom cameras - searching for deep shadows and high contrast in the stories their photographs tell. A unique aspect to the lunar surface is that we have illumination from dusk (or dawn) to midday sun happening before our eyes at the same time. While I enjoy the deep shadows of the terminator, I find myself drawn more to features illuminated at higher sun angles. Here you see the splatter of ejecta from recent impacts shining in the bright sunlight. When the opportunity arises I'd like to journey back to an old favorite, Aristarchus, which I last photographed up close in 2007. Thanks for sharing your work and comments - look forward to seeing and hearing more. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
drjonb Posted June 3, 2023 Share #11 Posted June 3, 2023 1 hour ago, Alan Friedman said: The terminator provides the most dramatic lighting for observing and imaging the moon and eyes are usually drawn there first. I've seen Andy's constructed image and other attempts at this type of montage, showing the moon as if lit from earth with all the sun's rays hitting from the same angle. To my eye the image appears as a pancake rather than in 3D but that is just my experience. Certainly it parallels how many approach terrestrial photography with Leica monochrom cameras - searching for deep shadows and high contrast in the stories their photographs tell. A unique aspect to the lunar surface is that we have illumination from dusk (or dawn) to midday sun happening before our eyes at the same time. While I enjoy the deep shadows of the terminator, I find myself drawn more to features illuminated at higher sun angles. Here you see the splatter of ejecta from recent impacts shining in the bright sunlight. When the opportunity arises I'd like to journey back to an old favorite, Aristarchus, which I last photographed up close in 2007. Thanks for sharing your work and comments - look forward to seeing and hearing more. Really great image of Aristarchus. Andy’s constructed image is a great technical feat but I agree, it does look a bit manufactured and unnatural. The technical challenge though does intrigue me. I recently sold all my telescope gear…seeing conditions here in the UK where I am are just not conducive, and too much faffing around to get everything set up! With the Sigma zoom and converter, that is, a 840mm focal length, there will always be a limitation to the detail achievable. As it is, the image is occupying only around 1/3 of the sensor area. But I can have it all ready to go in three minutes and that is so much more appealing, and I can often get something decent handheld. My current experimentation is to use the multishot option on the tripod and see what detail is possible. Will post the result if it is decent enough. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
1joel1 Posted June 5, 2023 Share #12 Posted June 5, 2023 Very nice! I only have CCD Leicas so I can't use them but I have used my Sonys with my 90mm SolarMax and other telescopes with pretty good results. Dedicated telescopes are better, but require much more post. Room for everybody. Joel 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Friedman Posted June 5, 2023 Author Share #13 Posted June 5, 2023 1 hour ago, 1joel1 said: Very nice! I only have CCD Leicas so I can't use them but I have used my Sonys with my 90mm SolarMax and other telescopes with pretty good results. Dedicated telescopes are better, but require much more post. Room for everybody. Joel All astronomy cameras I've used employ CCD sensors, but CCD Leicas (M8 and M9)lacked a live view option so no real way to use them at the focus of a telescope. I haven't tried the M11M with my solar imaging equipment (also a 90mm Solarmax) but I'd like to. Daytime seeing is usually undulating to some degree - I think it will be very hard to snap an image with sharpness across the entire solar disk, but perhaps taking a bunch and using the sharp areas from individual exposures combined will yield favorable results. Something to try on a good day. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
1joel1 Posted June 6, 2023 Share #14 Posted June 6, 2023 20 hours ago, Alan Friedman said: All astronomy cameras I've used employ CCD sensors, but CCD Leicas (M8 and M9)lacked a live view option so no real way to use them at the focus of a telescope. I haven't tried the M11M with my solar imaging equipment (also a 90mm Solarmax) but I'd like to. Daytime seeing is usually undulating to some degree - I think it will be very hard to snap an image with sharpness across the entire solar disk, but perhaps taking a bunch and using the sharp areas from individual exposures combined will yield favorable results. Something to try on a good day. The ZWO cameras are affordable and are CMOS. That's the direction I plan on going sometime. You can go mono or color and you can also add a color wheel to the mono cameras for deep space, planetary, or whatever you wish. I find the best solar viewing/imaging is during the winter, but we had record rain and cloudy days so I'll be trying during summer and fall. Good luck, Joel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Friedman Posted July 11, 2023 Author Share #15 Posted July 11, 2023 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! The sun with twelve active regions... M11M in the focuser of a 6" apochromatic refractor at 2200mm effective focal length. A Herschel wedge was used for filtration. Here is a colorized version: 2 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! The sun with twelve active regions... M11M in the focuser of a 6" apochromatic refractor at 2200mm effective focal length. A Herschel wedge was used for filtration. Here is a colorized version: ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/377812-using-the-m11-with-a-telescope/?do=findComment&comment=4812349'>More sharing options...
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