I heard the M-A is hand made or assembled by hand.

[logan2z]

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3 minutes ago, CSGreene said:

Ah, so you've seen the insides of each of these cameras?  Glad you're happy with the M-A.

No, I haven't completely disassembled each of these cameras.  Have you?  If so, please post some photos indicating why the M-A is of inferior quality. 

I don't take my cameras apart, I use them as photographic tools.  From that perspective, my M-A has been rock solid since I purchased it in 2017 and feels every bit as good as my M2 and M4.

[TomB_tx]

Decades ago my hobby was building custom bicycle frames, silver brazed joints. I tried hand brazing but couldn't get my hands hot enough.

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The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[ktmrider2]

I seem to have read somewhere some new Leica film cameras had a problem with their pressure plates scratching film.  Oh, I read that here.  Can't seem to remember EVER reading that about M3, M2, M4 etc!  I would argue that a camera that might scratch film is not as well made as one that does not.

[Aryel]

29 minutes ago, ktmrider2 said:

I seem to have read somewhere some new Leica film cameras had a problem with their pressure plates scratching film.  Oh, I read that here.  Can't seem to remember EVER reading that about M3, M2, M4 etc!  I would argue that a camera that might scratch film is not as well made as one that does not.

Let me google this for you…. Here you go, an m4 scratching film on the forum (link). So if we follow this kind of reasoning then m4 were not built as well as m2 and m3. You can continue the google search… Or make photos.

 

 

[Vlad Soare]

15 hours ago, kivis said:

Just exactly what does that mean?

A car journalist I hold in high regard used to say that a car being hand-built is another way of saying the door handles will fall off.
I'd say it's the same with cameras. It means that the build quality is hit or miss, depending on how good a day the person assembling it happened to have at the time.

 

Edited May 17, 2023 by Vlad Soare

[LocalHero1953]

50 minutes ago, ktmrider2 said:

Can't seem to remember EVER reading that about M3, M2, M4 etc!

Just google these issues from 1954, 1957 and 1966 - the internet was awash with complaints at the time🙃.

[kivis]

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20 minutes ago, Vlad Soare said:

A car journalist I hold in high regard used to say that a car being hand-built is another way of saying the door handles will fall off.
I'd say it's the same with cameras. It means that the build quality is hit or miss, depending on how good a day the person assembling it happened to have at the time.

 

So are you saying hand assembled is inferior?

[andybarton]

For some objects, hand assembly is the only method possible. I would suggest, having been to the Leica factory, that a Leica M is just such an object.

 

Can you name a product that is ENTIRELY made by a machine, from start to finish?

[Vlad Soare]

15 minutes ago, kivis said:

So are you saying hand assembled is inferior?

Generally speaking, yes. Unless an enormous amount of time and effort is spent on each individual item (like, say, in the case of a Rolls Royce), no human can match the precision of a machine.

 

Edited May 17, 2023 by Vlad Soare

[Vlad Soare]

8 minutes ago, andybarton said:

Can you name a product that is ENTIRELY made by a machine, from start to finish?

A Canon EOS, be it film or digital. And they are absolutely perfect in every respect when you take them out of the box, whereas my new hand-built M-A came from the factory with two faults. I'm not upset. I know it comes with the territory. That's what hand-built means. 

[andybarton]

4 minutes ago, Vlad Soare said:

A Canon EOS, be it film or digital.

Entirely made by machine?

[Vlad Soare]

2 minutes ago, andybarton said:

Entirely made by machine?

I may be wrong about this, but I seem to remember that the entire anssembly line was automated.
Anyway, even if I'm wrong and there is still a little bit of manual intervention, it's still better when the manual part is kept at a bare minimum. Robots don't have bad days, do not get tired throughout the day, do not think at anything else while doing their job. And it shows.

Edited May 17, 2023 by Vlad Soare

[Huss]

7 hours ago, wattsy said:

 

Flashback to when I was a kid in England!  Anyone remember the spoof version?  At the end they had a car crashing and the tagline was “Fiat Strada - built by robots, driven by Italians” (my apologies to our Italian members.

I thought the Strada AbRth was very cool.

[250swb]

1 hour ago, ktmrider2 said:

I seem to have read somewhere some new Leica film cameras had a problem with their pressure plates scratching film.  Oh, I read that here.  Can't seem to remember EVER reading that about M3, M2, M4 etc!  I would argue that a camera that might scratch film is not as well made as one that does not.

I think the skill of hand assembly hasn't changed over the years, even with the M4-2, what did change with the M4-2 were poor management decisions and people who build the cameras can only do so much. And today maybe the QC hasn't kept up with the 'hand-made' hype.

[Al Brown]

12 hours ago, Huss said:

It’s those nasty digital cameras that are made by robots.  M11, Sl2, Q2…

No.
There is a Youtube video from Wetzlar where a gentleman from Leica kindly explains to a journalist that "All M analog cameras are hand assembled by one person each and all digital M cameras are assembled by several people each". Something like that.
 

[Ouroboros]

1 hour ago, andybarton said:

 

 

Can you name a product that is ENTIRELY made by a machine, from start to finish?

Nails

[Huss]

12 minutes ago, Al Brown said:

No.
There is a Youtube video from Wetzlar where a gentleman from Leica kindly explains to a journalist that "All M analog cameras are hand assembled by one person each and all digital M cameras are assembled by several people each". Something like that.
 

I know.  Sometimes tone is hard to convey - just poking fun at digital cameras as this is the film camera forum (I also have a digital M).

I like the idea that a human is lovingly making my camera.  But I prefer the idea that I get a properly working camera irrespective of how it is made.

[Huss]

1 hour ago, andybarton said:

 

Can you name a product that is ENTIRELY made by a machine, from start to finish?

Whatever 3D printers churn out.

[Ouroboros]

Scratches on 35mm film

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[andybarton]

Apart from nails and scratches and 3D printed things, what have the Romans ever done for us?