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Have the Summicron-M 35, get the 28mm or 24mm Elmarit?


DadDadDaddyo

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Howdy folks --

In getting ready for some extended, intensive Street work in a few months, I'm moving back as much as possible into the M series (I have the SL and SL2, but they're frankly a bit big for all-day walking for the old coot I'm turning into).

Not long ago, I got hold of a Summicron-M 35mm that took the place of an f/2.5 Summarit that I found competent but somehow uninspiring. I'm thoroughly enjoying the Summicron! My digital M shooting is centered on the M10 Monochrom and the M11. My usual carry consists of three lenses, the 35, a 50mm Summilux, and the wonderful 90mm Macro Elmar. 

It's been my assumption that I would soon extend the wide end of this M lens kit to include the Elmarit-M 28mm, probably the 11677.

But as I've been shooting, reading, and reflecting, I've realized that I've overlooked the 24mm Elmarit-M.

I'm very familiar with the 24mm focal length from experience with the 24-90 Vario Elmarit-L that I've used extensively on my SL and SL2. It's a great focal length, but that's a honker of a lens and body to carry all day, (although I've done it). I've found the 24mm focal length offers great context, perspective, and comfortable room in a shot. 

I'm beginning to think that since I've got the 35mm Summicron maybe the logical next step is to the 24mm instead of the 28mm. Perhaps it offers a more distinct adjunct to the 35, the 50, and the 90 that I typically carry. 

This could also show up as a three- lens carry: the 24, the 50, and the 90, with one of them on the body and two comfortably carried. 

Though truly, that four-lens kit is what's got me thinking. The three that are off the body will easily fit into the tiny Tenba or the small Billingham that I carry. It would be a light load. 

It's interesting: that 24-90 Vario Elmarit has really proven itself to me over the years as a perfectly viable single-and-only lens to equip in an astonishingly wide set of circumstances. And I don't recall spending much time with it at at 28mm. When I rack it out wide, it's nice to have that 24mm focal length available, and that seems to be where I go rather than stopping at 28mm.

So that's influencing this current thinking as I prep to use the M series in an all-day-multi-day-intensive-use setting. 

Sorry for the ramble; I guess I'm just thinking out loud. Has anyone been down some of these same lanes? Where did your thinking lead you?

Thanks for any thoughts you might share!

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My thoughts would be:

(1) To complement a 35mm, a 24mm makes a lot of sense. I went for this rather than a 28mm when building a small manual focus Nikon system that included a 35mm.

(2) On the other hand, I think 28mm might work better as part of a 3 lens kit with a 50mm and a 90mm. With a 24mm, I'd probably find myself swapping between this and the 50mm, and regretting I hadn't brought something in between that I'd probably prefer to use more than either.

(3) The 28mm has the significant advantage of built-in framelines. How happy are you to guesstimate with the whole viewfinder outside the framelines, or use an external viewfinder (optical or Visoflex) or the LCD?

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It's difficult to make suggestions as street is so varied in style and subject matter, but the I find the most important thing to remember is to keep it 'simple and light' as more kit wears you out. I'm more a one lens type of guy with either a 35-50, however its horses for courses. Lens choice is quite personal as it reflects how one sees and their style. But since you mentioned you the 24-90 I'd suggest you rent and try out the 24 elmarit and the 28 lens and see if you're comfortable with either. Nothing is worse than being unfamiliar with ones kit than to focus on subject / composition/ light etc. Martin Parr uses a 24-70 so there's no rules. I probably haven't helped you with your lens query but its important just to be comfortable and familiar with your kit and enjoy shooting!

Here is something to inspire you with than gear.

 

Edited by cboy
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Hello Anbaric and cboy -

Thanks for your thoughts!

Anbaric - Yes, I thought about the frame lines and the need for either an auxiliary bright line finder or the EVF. I don't think it'll be a decisive factor but could influence my thinking if taken alongside other factors. 

Your point about considering spacing between combinations of lenses is well-taken. And, it changes depending with the size and focal "emphasis" of a given kit. If I'm bringing four lenses on the trip, that is, the 90, the 50, and the 35 plus something else, I need to consider the size of the jump from 35 to either 28 or 24. (During the days involved, I'll probably just carry one additional lens besides what's on the body, so this is about what to bring on the trip, not what to carry each day.)

cboy - your point about keeping it simple is very well taken also. I've participated in intensive workshops In the past and you're quite right: the very last thing you want is to be fiddling with deciding which lens you need at any given moment. I've found it far better to make my best guess going in each day, pick a lens and then just work with it rather than miss a shot. 

Picking a single lens for a day is relatively easy. If I could only bring one lens during a day, it would probably be the Summicron 35mm I already have. If I could tuck a second lens somewhere just to permit me to change gears during a break or something, I'd probably add the Elmar Macro 90. I've carried exactly that lens as a second lens in the past and it's simply great for certain kinds of street work. Either the 28 or the 35 plus the 90 would be a fine two lens kit. The Elmar Macro 90 is almost nothing to carry, it just tucks in a pocket. 

It sounds as if I'm talking myself away from the 24.

Well, there's still time for consideration. Maybe I should spend some more time with the 24-90 on the SL2 and see where I end up using it most.

Besides, after carrying around the SL2 and the 24-90 for an afternoon, the M bodies and lenses will feel like moccasins after hiking boots!

Thanks, guys! I appreciate your thoughts!

Edited by DadDadDaddyo
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If you want to keep the 35mm, get the 24mm. This will compliment better the 35mm look. Its way wider.

If you want to use one lens for street. . I would ditch the 35mm and get the 28mm, it's somehow middle way between the 24mm and 35mm and it's wide enough,  without been to wide. For me it's the perfect street focal.

I pushed myself to use 35mm 40mm and 50mm and always go back to the 28mm on the m.

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You probably know that many of the best street photographers have shot their stuff with a 35mm lens. If I were you, I'd call it a day and be happy with what you have. On a side note, I added to my 35mm Summicron a Voigtländer Color Skopar for 350 euros in mint. In B&W and the usual subjects HP5 and Tri-X, the lesser image quality in the corners isn't distracting.  But it's sharp in the centre at full aperture, tiny and doesn't require a hood for lens protection because it's relatively cheap. That frees you from gear angst in less convenient situations and makes the M genuinely pocketable.

Edited by hansvons
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The 24mm Elmarit (talking 2.8 asph) is probably one of Leica’s finest lenses, and can be picked up at a relative bargain. Almost zero distortion so the viewer doesn’t get the sense of it being a ‘wide’ lens. An  external viewfinder is nice, but one can easily use the outer limits of the built in vf for approx framing. 21 or 18 you do need an external vf. 

Edited by charlesphoto99
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Thanks for all the comments; they are thoughtful and helpful. The forum's search tool brought up a ton of material as well, but I appreciate you folks taking the time to weigh in with your current thinking.

The point made about the 35mm focal length and it's ubiquity in Classic Street is well taken. Thinking over it all, I realize the question for me is probably more about pairings than "which four lenses to take places".

It also seems likely that in the fullness of time I'll end up with both the 24 and the 28, so another conclusion might be that my question is more one of sequence than ultimate choice.

Your responses have been very helpful, so I thank you. Best wishes!

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After having lived as a photographer with 28-50-100, 35-50-135, 21-35-50-35, 24-35-50-75-135 (and not getting into zooms here) I can confidently say that for me thinking in sets is pretty useless. My personal opinion nowadays is, to pick a lens for a purpose and in doing so you end up with many lenses and no "well spaced" set which to me is an invention from photo-magazines.

I couldn't do without any of my most used lenses 28-35-50 as every focal length has something the other cant do but I wouldn't carry them all, all the time. Are they well spaced? No. But they do specific jobs and for me can rarely replace each other. When I go out I pick a lens or two depending of the subject matter and environments that will probably cross my way.

My recommendation is to pick the lens that will bring home the pictures you have in my mind and forget about what you already have in your bag. In your case, I get the impression you want a 28 mm and the spacing-thing just kicked you off-track. Trust your gut-feeling, get the 28.

Edited by skahde
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On 5/14/2023 at 1:05 AM, DadDadDaddyo said:

I'm beginning to think that since I've got the 35mm Summicron maybe the logical next step is to the 24mm instead of the 28mm

I find the distance 28-35 too small indeed. Besides, the Elmarit 24 is a special lens, right in the middle between classical Mandler’s and Karbe’s drawing. I owned the Summicron 28 asph i, but found out that it was especially interesting on my M8, when I got the M9 I gradually lost interest in it. I have never had any problems with missing framelines for the 24mm, I use the metal borders of the viewfinders for it and that works for me.

Edited by otto.f
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The 24mm is a more interesting jump if you keep the 35mm. It allows you to get closer to your subject with nothing that can or should come between your camera and the subject of interest. Very interesting for street photography in crowded and tight spaces. It also enables interesting composition with little distortion compared to an (even) wider focal so interesting for landscape and architecture etc.

My opinion is that if you want a single lens and feel that 35mm is not wide enough, then better settle on a 28mm.

If you prefer 35mm for most of your shooting and would like to explore a wider focal from time to time, for a different shooting style, than keep the Cron 35 and add the Elmarit 24mm to your kit. Today that's my setup for wide angle ie 35mm that I often use plus the Lux 24mm when I want something different or when I am in tight/crowded spaces

 

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28mm for the framelines, greater distance from subject to frame pictures, faster lenses, etc.

Skipping a focal length because you want "a noticeable difference" makes no sense to me because each one is distinct enough IMO. YMMV.

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22 hours ago, charlesphoto99 said:

The 24mm Elmarit (talking 2.8 asph) is probably one of Leica’s finest lenses, and can be picked up at a relative bargain. Almost zero distortion so the viewer doesn’t get the sense of it being a ‘wide’ lens. An  external viewfinder is nice, but one can easily use the outer limits of the built in vf for approx framing. 21 or 18 you do need an external vf. 

I couldn't agree more.

Someone once said that every M user should have a 24 Elmarit in their bag, and they weren't wrong, IMHO. Mine is nearly always on my camera - if not, the 35 Summicron-ASPH is instead. My 50 Summilux gets a look in only occasionally. 

 

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"Street work" is vague term.  :)

My universal on M is Summarit-M 35 2.5, never had money for slightly wider 35/2 ASPH. :) And ergonomics of Summarit-M 35 2.5 are superb for street work.

Back to focal length and street work. It really depends on type of the streets.

If it is crowded downtown, event I use 21. I find 21 to be easier for fast framing than 24. 

If I don't feel I want to deal with EVF (external VF), I have tiny 28, which still sufficient for crowds and narrow places, but no need in EVF.

35 I take as only lens on longer trips. But one trip was to some old college in Vermont state. Hardly any streets and 50 was good :) 

 

 

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Well, an update...

In the end it was simple. Since I've got the M10M and the M11, and since a couple of targets of opportunity appeared in the Used sections of a pair of reputable dealers I've dealt with before, and at very reasonable prices, and with generous return policies (that I've never needed)....

...I decided to delay moving on the M11M, and ordered both the 24mm and the 28mm Elmarit-M.

At the sizes I usually print to (roughly a 16-inch image on the short side x whatever,  on 17 inch roll paper) I've been simply ecstatic with the output from the M10M. It could seriously keep me happy for years. The lenses will make a bigger difference to the actual images I produce, and immediately, than the bump from 40 to 60 megapixels will. The M11M can wait, for now. 

And, given the excellence of the analysis offered in this thread, affording myself the opportunity to equip either lens I posed questions about here seems the (initially) unexpected, but (in hindsight) obvious conclusion. I landed the pair without even taking out even half of the piggy bank that's been marked "M11M"...

All of this is less about which and whether, and more about sequence. 

Many thanks once again, folks, this has been very helpful!

Edited by DadDadDaddyo
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39 minutes ago, DadDadDaddyo said:

M10M. It could seriously keep me happy for years.

Sean Reid would agree with that. Besides, the M11M has a seriously different interpretation of blue than the M10M which could disturb your use of analogue filters if you do.

Edited by otto.f
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