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M10 to an M10-R?


bherman01545

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I currently own an M10 and it’s great. I have an offer for an M10-R at a great price. I know the differences in features and a higher MP sensor.

is it really that much better? I mean, it would be handy to me able to crop some of the images and also have a higher resolution sensor to accompany my M10 for the times that I need the extra resolution.

 But the other option is to put the $ into lenses.

Thoughts?

-Brad

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Bherman01545,   Based on my several years of owning both M10 and M10-R and using both extensively, it will get down to perhaps your doing a pros and cons list.  I found the M10-R to be superb.  I am able to create more highly resolved large prints and take advantage of the resolution of the M lenses.  In your case, perhaps printing large like 36X42 or larger is not in your play book.  I did try the M11 when it initially arrived, but after 2,500+ images and 6 weeks of initial fielding bugs (many since resolved with firmware), I swapped back to the M10-R.  I also found the M10-R color noise to be a little better at lower ISOs than the M11.  If you don't print large, keep the M10 and buy some M lenses.  I am certain others will chime in with their sage advice.  The good news, you have 2 most excellent choices.  r/ Mark

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I can only write about my experience in going from M240 (with 35&50 FLE and 50APO) to M10-R.

 

As I look at my newly captured M10-R images, apart from the well documented M10-R body/sensor improvements,

it's also like I bought 3 new lens versions of 35&50 FLE and 50APO

 

I've kept my M240 and will give to a family member as I still consider it good, but the M10-R is dramatically better for me. It only took me 2 mins of shooting the M10-R to realise this.

 

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1 hour ago, jakontil said:

You sure you need that extra pixels? And a lower native iso 100? The only reason i got the M10R over my M10 was it’s blackpaint

That would be the only reason to change for me :) Had the q2 before I get my m10 and for me, I don’t need the „extra“ pixels.

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Apart from increased resolution, improved dynamic range and better low ISO performance (when considering the same print size of the photo), also the touch screen and the less noisy shutter are aspects to consider.

While I rarely use the screen, the quieter shutter is a plus for me.

I upgraded from M10 when the M10-R was launched, bought a second M10-R instead of an M11 last year and sold the M10 recently. No regrets so far…

But if the question would be either new camera or new lens, I would first of all ask myself which lens is missing and decide what is more important.

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The 10r is in general a more rounded product than the 10. It incorporates the changes of the 10-P. The sensor has a different architecture, too, as it is a dual gain which is better for ISO. Its top ISO is 50,000 which means it is acceptable for 25,000.

Another thing is the qualitative difference in user experience, and you may not see a lot, other than a slightly different color, more resolution -which is good not only for prints, but may allow you crops-, and less tolerance with your shutter speed, because higher resolution also brings with it more camera shake. For peace of mind you should shoot a with at least one shutter speed above the focus length. Or alternatively, with a tripod.

So ultimately, if you decide to buy it, don't expect wonders -else you may end disappointed-, but you will have a better product. 

 

 

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 I wasn’t happy with my M10, but that’s different in your case. Nevertheless I found unexpected advantages above former M’s:

- cropping is possible to a large extent, which is not only handy if you just didn’t bring the right lens for that situation. I can now leave a heavy pack of lenses at home, which saves weight. I don’t see myself starting a big travel with one lens yet, but it comes nearer. 

- though still quite neutral, the colors are deeper, more filled and still not too saturated. I keep on being surprised how rich they are and how much I enjoy looking at my photo’s.

- all my lenses have had a jump to a higher level, I enjoy using them with new eyes.

- these differences show in print

Keep in mind that every new M has a big chance of needing a more precise adjustment of the rangefinder than how it comes from the store. 

Edited by otto.f
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I went M10 to 10R and I can only echo the above.. The additional features are nice (not so relevant from 10P to 10R though) and personally I prefer the files to work on which are more malleable in post and the exposure latitude is better than the M10.

I'm blessed to live where it's often sunny, so (true) ISO100 was a big boost for me too.

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I can second everything written above. I have used a M10 for several years and bought a (used) M10-R last year. I was a little skeptical about the file size of the 40MP files because I edit my photos almost exclusively on my iPad Pro. But I found out that the 40 MP files are no problem.

I will sell my M10 next week (hopefully). It’s a wonderful camera but the M10-R is definitely the better one.

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I switched from the M10 to the M10-R.  Both are very capable, but I find the latter a bit more refined for my usage.  The sensor, based on the Leica S3 sensor architecture, offers more than just higher MP.  As always, though, whether or not this translates to better pictures or prints depends on the user and his/her skills, needs, goals and tastes.  For some, a different lens… or a different printer… or a different software application… or… will provide more bang for the buck.  
 

The black paint on my M10-R contributes nothing photographically… but I like it.

Jeff

 

Edited by Jeff S
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I personally have fondness for the tonality on offer with M10.  The improvements already cited certainly are real... although the small battery is even more taxed if you dare use the viso... but when ever I review the output from the two, I'm find myself more drawn to the M10, particularly for B&W.  As I've mentioned previously, I wish I had kept the 10 and skipped the R, which I still have, in favor of the 11. YMMV, of course.

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26 minutes ago, Tailwagger said:

I personally have fondness for the tonality on offer with M10.  The improvements already cited certainly are real... although the small battery is even more taxed if you dare use the viso... but when ever I review the output from the two, I'm find myself more drawn to the M10, particularly for B&W.  As I've mentioned previously, I wish I had kept the 10 and skipped the R, which I still have, in favor of the 11. YMMV, of course.

Should probably add, though some seem to disagree, that at narrower aperture, the RF is generally more accurate (and far faster) at finding the central point of focus. 

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My Leica M240p got the the best color in saturated mode. My M10 colors are ok and not as rich. M10 has monochrome mode which I like. Just finished watching Thorsten O youtube review on M11 - M11 colors are not that great . So I think M10R is the next step up for me.

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I own an M10R and like it very much.  Just a point that was identified in DP review: The 40 megapixel sensor is more difficult to hand hold.  I think this is true as well and found the camera somewhat difficult to get used to.    I tend to shoot at high shutter speeds to avoid this. This may not be an option in some circumstances without going to a high ISO. I also have seen discussions that some lenses may not resolve as well on high megapixel  sensors.  If you don’t need 40 megapixels then I would go for an M10P or, better yet, keep what you have. BTW, it seems that used M10Ps are about the same price as used M10Rs which is very telling.  IMHO, although others may differ if you like your M10, then stay with it. 

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On 5/15/2023 at 11:04 PM, Tailwagger said:

I personally have fondness for the tonality on offer with M10.  The improvements already cited certainly are real... although the small battery is even more taxed if you dare use the viso... but when ever I review the output from the two, I'm find myself more drawn to the M10, particularly for B&W.  As I've mentioned previously, I wish I had kept the 10 and skipped the R, which I still have, in favor of the 11. YMMV, of course.

I concur.

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