The non-perfect travel lens combination

[Chris W]

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39 minutes ago, lct said:

Just kidding but i suspect many mono-lens photographers prefer composing in their armchairs than with their camera

Like I said, I shot just with a 35mm for a few years, back in the darkroom days when it wasn't as easy to crop.

Most of the famous Leica film photographers are known for one or two focal lengths (William Klein, Robert Franck etc).

[Shu_downunder]

4 hours ago, fil-m said:

I've recently started experimenting with 24mm on the street. It is quite challenging (technically) but when it works the outcome is rewarding. It forces you to be much closer to the subject and always think about both the subject and its environment, and how they both relate. 

Technically it means "better holding the camera" as a tilt in any direction has more impact on the image - so if the "effect" is not wanted, more post processing is required to fix distortion and tilt.  

For candids it also requires you to be better at estimating distances and adjusting if you want to shoot at 1.4-2. Indeed being close to the subject does not give you enough time to adjust the distance in the rangefinder. In my case, I preset the distance at 2m or 3m depending on the context and how close to people I am. Then I slightly adjust "on the fly" by a mm clockwise or counterclockwise without looking at the rangefinder, while making the picture. So you have to "guess and adjust" the distance while also imagining the 24mm frame. 

Interesting when you are in crowded areas. Interesting to put the subject in the context of its (wider) environment. 

With the Lux 24mm, slightly out of focus due to small misses between 2m-4m is not a problem, the picture remains beautiful because OOF is quite gradual and the lens is indeed not overly sharp at wide aperture

24mm and 50mm is a good combination for me. 35mm if I must stick to one lens.

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I have exactly the same feeling to 24!

And thanks for the "guess and adjust" tip. I realised I have been awkwardly using this technic shooting families especially kids. Now I can be relaxed and try it more.

[Shu_downunder]

New problem now:

My wife just told me that we have a scheduled 3.5 hours night bush walk. I think I can accept bringing one more lens for the whole trip, but still only one lens each day and leave the other one in the hotel, or somewhere safe.

Now for the night walk, I don't have a quick M lens. Which options would you choose?

Option 1. 50/2.4 or voigtlander 35 2.5 color skopar

Option 2. R 80/1.4 

Option 3. don't take photos on that night walk.

@spydrxx @KFo @Ko.Fe. @FrozenInTime  @Chris W @jaapv @RexGig0 @LocalHero1953 @Huss @pgk @fil-m @Chris W @lct

 

[FrozenInTime]

8 minutes ago, Shu_downunder said:

Now for the night walk, I don't have a quick M lens. Which options would you choose?

Option 1. 50/2.4 or voigtlander 35 2.5 color skopar

35mm Skopar - at least with the M246 you can crank up the ISO, so coupled with 1/30s exposures, you should be able to record in the darkness. 

[Anakronox]

If I’m only packing one lens, the choice for me is easy:

The Konica M-Hexanon Dual 21-35!

I get two incredibly useful focal lengths in one lens and I’m perfectly comfortable with both.  It’s a relatively rare lens so finding one on short notice could be tough, but in my opinion it’s worth the trouble.  50mm is never a consideration for any reason as it’s either way too tight or not long enough.  It’s lacks a dynamic feeling and separates you from the scene rather than draws you in. 

[lct]

Not sure how to shoot children at 1/30s w/o motion blur in the dark. Problem is the OP has only one fast lens (R 80/1.4) and it is a bulky lens that will work in LV mode only. I would then bring that lens if it is not too big for the OP's bag and/or back. Otherwise, a compact 50/2.4 or 35/2.5 should fit at high iso and not-too-slow shutter speeds with some good NR software in PP.

[KFo]

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lol, the plot thickens!

You could throw that 50 summarit in a carryon bag for sure.  Something to consider; that you can shot a night bush walk (whatever that is) with the 24.  It might be a lot more interesting images to look towards your walking companions for images; their responses to the things seen, them in the foreground some critter in the background, etc.  There’s already plenty of zoomed in safari animal pix out there…

[spydrxx]

2 hours ago, Shu_downunder said:

Nption 3. don't take photos on that night walk.

Does everything on the trip need to be photographed? How about just some down time with family, everybody relaxing and enjoying themselves and their surroundings.

 

 

[Huss]

3 hours ago, Shu_downunder said:

New problem now:

My wife just told me that we have a scheduled 3.5 hours night bush walk. I think I can accept bringing one more lens for the whole trip, but still only one lens each day and leave the other one in the hotel, or somewhere safe.

Now for the night walk, I don't have a quick M lens. Which options would you choose?

Option 1. 50/2.4 or voigtlander 35 2.5 color skopar

Option 2. R 80/1.4 

Option 3. don't take photos on that night walk.

@spydrxx @KFo @Ko.Fe. @FrozenInTime  @Chris W @jaapv @RexGig0 @LocalHero1953 @Huss @pgk @fil-m @Chris W @lct

 

Option 1.  But trade the 35 2.5 for the fantastic CV 35 1.4 v2.  Tiny, super fast, great character.  And take that as your only lens for the entire trip.

[JonPB]

For this kind of problem, the most useful approach for me is to ask: what kind of images do I want to create? If I do not have a specific vision for the outcome, then: what kind of experience do I want to have?

re: night walk. An f/3.8 lens isn't all that limiting on an M246. It might be a good lesson in capturing images where most of the frame is in shadow tones rather than middle grays. An f/1.2 lens has a larger envelope, but 3 stops more exposure isn't enough if you're working with 13 stops less illumination (eg overcast day to moonlight). Either way, you have to compose for the darkness. I'd expect 24mm itself to be more limiting; wides are great at generating visual interest by painting the same subject from different perspectives within a single frame, but those large swaths of deep shadow will be hard to compose around. An excellent challenge? An exhausting mismatch of tools and expectations? That's up to you.

I think the most important lesson I've learned in photography is that not every scene wants to become a photo. Some beautiful moments can be captured while others are best appreciated as ephemera. Others are better in photos than real life. I usually take a limited toolset specifically so that if I see something that isn't appropriate for what I have on hand, it is easier for me to enjoy the scene for what it is rather than stress out over swapping gear and maybe miss the moment entirely.

What do you want to get out of the ordeal of lugging around that little brass box?

[Ernstk]

Without wishing to sound harsh, your question is quite meaningless.

Only you can decide on which lens to take. We can't.

We have absolutely no idea as to what your photographic style is, or how you want your results to look.

You need to make your own choice.

However, I think there's a bigger issue here, which goes beyond which lens to use. I get the sense (and I may be wrong) that you're not entirely confident about your photography and how you approach it. You need to have enough confidence to work through that.

The 24mm photos that you posted here are really good. You're clearly a very capable photographer.

Just have faith in yourself and keep on taking photos!

Ernst

Edited May 7, 2023 by Ernstk

[Shu_downunder]

Thank you for your thoughtful responses. @JonPB @Ernstk They can be applied to many other decision-making situations as well.

I think I'll just go with the 24 but enjoy the walk nonetheless. If I can capture one or two good photos, that would be a bonus.

Edited May 7, 2023 by Shu_downunder

[dpitt]

18 hours ago, Shu_downunder said:

New problem now:

My wife just told me that we have a scheduled 3.5 hours night bush walk. I think I can accept bringing one more lens for the whole trip, but still only one lens each day and leave the other one in the hotel, or somewhere safe.

Now for the night walk, I don't have a quick M lens. Which options would you choose?

Option 1. 50/2.4 or voigtlander 35 2.5 color skopar

Option 2. R 80/1.4 

Option 3. don't take photos on that night walk.

@spydrxx @KFo @Ko.Fe. @FrozenInTime  @Chris W @jaapv @RexGig0 @LocalHero1953 @Huss @pgk @fil-m @Chris W @lct

 

Definitely the 35mm. Take the camera. It is frustrating to see something you want to shoot but not have a good camera with you.

This brings me to my second suggestion. Forgive me if this advice has already been given, maybe I overlooked it. I always take more than one option of lenses when traveling. But I chose in the morning which lens to mount depending on the expected scenes.

Also, I often take 2 bodies with me on a walk (and iPhone as third option, but as you say it is not a good complement to me either). The 2 bodies are the perfect solution when I have to quickly chose between wide and tele lens. Changing lenses quickly on one body does not work nearly as well for me. The moment is often gone before I switched and I do not like the risk of having dirt on my sensor when traveling (been there done that, never again), so I go inside, drink a coffee or something whenever I need to switch lenses.

The minimum companion camera I take with me is the X2 with EVF. In fact it is the camera I always carry, only 400g and small, even when I do not have the M9 with me. It has a 35mm and covers most things I would like to shoot. I then choose either 50 or 21 (24 in your case) to mount on my M9, and shoot most of the day with that one with an occasional shot with the X2.

In some cases the X2 is exchanged for the M8. In that case the M9 serves with a wide and the M8 with 50 or tele.

So basically my advice would be to add a good companion camera to your gear in stead of just buying other lenses. The companion would preferably be lighter and more compact than your M246, shoot color and produce such quality that you do not regret taking the shot with it in stead of the 246. For me that would be anything better than X2 (is going to be replaced by a TL2 soon), like TLx, CLx or even a Qx (not as compact but very good otherwise)

 

Edited May 8, 2023 by dpitt

[Shu_downunder]

1 hour ago, dpitt said:

Definitely the 35mm. Take the camera. It is frustrating to see something you want to shoot but not have a good camera with you.

This brings me to my second suggestion. Forgive me if this advice has already been given, maybe I overlooked it. I always take more than one option of lenses when traveling. But I chose in the morning which lens to mount depending on the expected scenes.

Also, I often take 2 bodies with me on a walk (and iPhone as third option, but as you say it is not a good complement to me either). The 2 bodies are the perfect solution when I have to quickly chose between wide and tele lens. Changing lenses quickly on one body does not work nearly as well for me. The moment is often gone before I switched and I do not like the risk of having dirt on my sensor when traveling (been there done that, never again), so I go inside, drink a coffee or something whenever I need to switch lenses.

The minimum companion camera I take with me is the X2 with EVF. In fact it is the camera I always carry, only 400g and small, even when I do not have the M9 with me. It has a 35mm and covers most things I would like to shoot. I then choose either 50 or 21 (24 in your case) to mount on my M9, and shoot most of the day with that one with an occasional shot with the X2.

In some cases the X2 is exchanged for the M8. In that case the M9 serves with a wide and the M8 with 50 or tele.

So basically my advice would be to add a good companion camera to your gear in stead of just buying other lenses. The companion would preferably be lighter and more compact than your M246, shoot color and produce such quality that you do not regret taking the shot with it in stead of the 246. For me that would be anything better than X2 (is going to be replaced by a TL2 soon), like TLx, CLx or even a Qx (not as compact but very good otherwise)

 

Thanks for the detailed suggestions.

I also feel like changing lenses should be done before leaving in the morning, instead of during shooting. Thus 2-body solution would be perfect for a pure photography trip.

In this trip, however, it's half, if not more than half, a family one. I think I might stick to the one-body way.

For the second body (for the future),

• 24mm + 246 is my main set for many reasons.
• the second body is ideally a) compact, and b) working with a long focal lens of at least 50mm

So should I look at a second-hand CL or TL to use with the 50/2.4?

Edited May 8, 2023 by Shu_downunder

[Chris W]

If I was going to add a second camera it would be more like a Point and Shoot, like a Sony RX something or Ricoh GR.

In the usual gloom of midday England I often struggle with exposure on an M body and f2 lens, I doubt you'd get much on a post sunset bush walk.

I wouldn't want to spend a lot on a CL, albeit a nice and useful camera. You could add an M adapter. The Sigma 45mm (L mount) lens is cheap used. And Sigma also has a 23mm.

[dpitt]

10 hours ago, Shu_downunder said:

Thanks for the detailed suggestions.

I also feel like changing lenses should be done before leaving in the morning, instead of during shooting. Thus 2-body solution would be perfect for a pure photography trip.

In this trip, however, it's half, if not more than half, a family one. I think I might stick to the one-body way.

For the second body (for the future),

• 24mm + 246 is my main set for many reasons.
• the second body is ideally a) compact, and b) working with a long focal lens of at least 50mm

So should I look at a second-hand CL or TL to use with the 50/2.4?

My travels are almost always mixed family/photography. Even then I do not mind taking 2 bodies if they are as compact as the M and X2 / CL / TL. It helps if one of the 2 can be tucked away in a small bag or a coat pocket until you need it.

I dislike shooting without a VF of some kind, so the CL would be perfect, the TL would need at least an OVF for the mounted lens or ideally an EVF for me. Crop factor is 1,5 so mounting the very compact Summicron 40C would give you 60mm eq with really good quality and the camera would still fit in a coat pocket with the lens mounted on an adapter. (maybe the EVF will have to be dismounted/mounted for comfort).

If you want longer lenses or AF L lenses, the result with lens mounted will be less compact but offers AF for moments when you want to have a 'lazy' kind of shooting. Even zoom lenses can bring extra possibilities you do not have with the 246. When you do not mind MF lenses, the Elmar 90 C F4 mounted with adapter gives a very compact 135mm eq. for a very competitive price.

Maybe you hesitate because of the crop factor. Then have a look at this:

 

[Shu_downunder]

Thanks @dpitt

My first Leica lens was a R 50/2, I used it on a GF1. Manual focusing on that combination was challenging. But I somehow don't mind it.

I therefore still have one or two good M4/3 lenses like the 24-70/2.8 which is not a bad travel one.

So will it be too evil to convince my wife or son to use a decent M4/3 camera with that lens(24-70), and bring a 50mm M lens as additional to have a 100mm equivalent with the M4/3 body, when needed?

The point is that getting a CL/TL will not be used that much, at least not by other family members at all. And the M4/3 could be a good video camera as well.

Edited May 9, 2023 by Shu_downunder

[Shu_downunder]

Well I have to say one of my dreams is to guide my sons to use Leica or whatever cameras, and when we have a family trip, the cameras the whole family carry become a good combination even though each one only takes one camera. IE, we are using backup cameras for each other.

[sometimesmaybe]

1 hour ago, Shu_downunder said:

Thanks @dpitt

My first Leica lens was a R 50/2, I used it on a GF1. Manual focusing on that combination was challenging. But I somehow don't mind it.

I therefore still have one or two good M4/3 lenses like the 24-70/2.8 which is not a bad travel one.

So will it be too evil to convince my wife or son to use a decent M4/3 camera with that lens(24-70), and bring a 50mm M lens as additional to have a 100mm equivalent with the M4/3 body, when needed?

The point is that getting a CL/TL will not be used that much, at least not by other family members at all. And the M4/3 could be a good video camera as well.

nothing evil about it. m43 is really fun to use for a casual shooter (esp if you have one of those tiny lenses). it also makes decent images! 

when i want a light setup for a shoot, i take my m246 (with CV 35mm f1.2 and 75mm f1.9) + em5.2 (with 17mm f1.8 and 45mm f1.8)

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[dpitt]

6 hours ago, Shu_downunder said:

Thanks @dpitt

My first Leica lens was a R 50/2, I used it on a GF1. Manual focusing on that combination was challenging. But I somehow don't mind it.

I therefore still have one or two good M4/3 lenses like the 24-70/2.8 which is not a bad travel one.

So will it be too evil to convince my wife or son to use a decent M4/3 camera with that lens(24-70), and bring a 50mm M lens as additional to have a 100mm equivalent with the M4/3 body, when needed?

The point is that getting a CL/TL will not be used that much, at least not by other family members at all. And the M4/3 could be a good video camera as well.

Using my wife as a 'mule' to carry my second camera failed years ago. She wanted an extreme zoom to cover everything which made it even worse in comparison to my M8 at the time. Now she does not want to carry more then her iPhone for shooting pictures. She takes nice snapshots and composition wise they are very good, but that is all.

I have a Lumix Gx8 that makes decent images. Although with this one I really tend to use it when my M9 is no alternative, like for tele or macro. Going wide is hard with MFT although I often use it with the 15mm Voigtlander Heliar. It is also not as good in the pocketing department as my X2 and soon my TL2. The main issue is that with every picture of the Gx8, I wish I would have taken it with my M9. I do not have these regrets with the X2, although it is older than the Gx8.

5 hours ago, Shu_downunder said:

Well I have to say one of my dreams is to guide my sons to use Leica or whatever cameras, and when we have a family trip, the cameras the whole family carry become a good combination even though each one only takes one camera. IE, we are using backup cameras for each other.

This failed for me too. My son uses his iPhone and rarely takes anything else than snapshots. In this case the apple fell far from the tree...🤔 If he did not look as much as a younger version of me, I would doubt he was mine

If you can get your son or wife take pictures it is a good thing for later. Otherwise, when you make travel books (or about events)  it will look like you were not with them on the trip.

Edited May 9, 2023 by dpitt