In-camera vs on-camera light meters

[Huss]

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The case for built in light meters is how add on ones just ruin the lines of the camera.

And having TTL metering is sweet.  If I am bringing along a meter for my M-A or M3, it is not attached to the camera.

[Anbaric]

A chrome Leicameter looks pretty cool on an early M, though, and the shutter speed coupling is neat. On the other hand, how many top plates have been scarred for life by careless fitting or removal?

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[Leicasb314]

I utilize both in the same manner. I tend to take an initial reading and make adjustments when needed. 

[TomB_tx]

1 hour ago, Huss said:

The case for built in light meters is how add on ones just ruin the lines of the camera.

Oh come now - This was the ultimate camera style in the early 1960s:

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[madNbad]

I have never owned either a MR meter or any meter like the Voigtlander VC, Kerks plus the others but I have owned a bunch.

The little Reveni cube is convenient and easy to read. The sensor reads a 45 degree angle and the OLED screen is easy to read in any light. Offers a wide range of ISO and camera settings. On the downside, the tiny buttons are a bit fiddly and be sure to carry extra batteries.

Gossen Digisix/Digiflash is almost perfect except for battery life. Offers the best combination of digital readout with a analog dial for camera settings. Changing the ISO could be a bit of a process.

Sekonic L-308, my favorite. Works well, battery lasts a long time, offers incident and reflective metering, plus flash. The X model covers metering for video and cinema. It's slim and easy to carry but larger than many of the other meters mentioned.

Sekonic L-398 Studio Deluxe. No battery required and had been in production for seventy years. Would have kept the last one I owned but the dial was just loose enough to let the ISO drift when I pulled it out of a pocket.

Gossen Luna Pro. Great meter but large and getting older with many needing battery adapters. I owned two over the years and both had broken rocker switches.

Sekonic L-408. A 308 with a 5 degree spot meter attached. I wish Sekonic would bring this back insted of the monster 858. 

Weston Master. Great in it's time but finding both working ones and service is getting difficult.

Gossen Pilot. Nice little selenium meter. I've owned one for years and it's still accurate.

My latest addition is the Reveni Spot Meter. I haven't used it enough to have an opinion yet but seems promising.

Leica M6 Classic meter. My first M6 was used almost exclusively with slide film. Always gave accurate exposures.

 Any other favorites?

 

[TomB_tx]

4 minutes ago, madNbad said:

 Any other favorites?

Leica M5 - accurate small spot lets you find an appropriate area to meter almost any scene.

Leicaflex SL - larger spot, but when it first came out we were amazed at the speed and accuracy of our exposures.

[Ouroboros]

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6 hours ago, junix said:

There are nice options out there..

Where?
 

[Michael Geschlecht]

Hello Everybody,

1 of the advantages of an on camera meter is: You can take it off a camera on a tripod, etc. & walk right up to the subject for close up metering.

Best Regards,

Michael

[ktmrider2]

At some point in time, I remember seeing incident domes that were placed over the front of the lens to turn the in camera meter into an incident light meter.  I always thought they were a bit much.  I have had lots of off camera meters, hand held meters and cameras with thru the lens light meters in my 56 years of playing with cameras and film.  They all work and except for slide film, film has lots of latitude.  However, my favorite form of metering which produces the most consistent negatives is using an incident meter.

[Michael Geschlecht]

40 minutes ago, ktmrider2 said:

At some point in time, I remember seeing incident domes that were placed over the front of the lens to turn the in camera meter into an incident light meter.  I always thought they were a bit much.  I have had lots of off camera meters, hand held meters and cameras with thru the lens light meters in my 56 years of playing with cameras and film.  They all work and except for slide film, film has lots of latitude.  However, my favorite form of metering which produces the most consistent negatives is using an incident meter.

Hello ktmrider2,

1 of the first cameras to do this is a Topcon Super D.

Some early Metrawatt clip on selenium meters have add on incident light measuring slides. The slides slide into place in front of the selenium cells & their boosters.

If you go to the "Collectors & Historica" Section of this Forum

Then "click" J.C. Braconi's very nice "Leica Historica" at the top.

Then "click" the RED "Leica Historica"

Then "click" the left column

Then go almost to the bottom

Then "click" Lightmeters"

Then go almost to the bottom.

And look at some very nice photos of some selenium clip on meters with their boosters & their incident reading slides.

Or, perhaps, someone who is better at using computers than I am can simply "click" the "Lightmeter"  portion to right here.

Best Regards,

Michael

Edited May 3, 2023 by Michael Geschlecht

[Topsy]

5 hours ago, Michael Geschlecht said:

Hello Everybody,

1 of the advantages of an on camera meter is: You can take it off a camera on a tripod, etc. & walk right up to the subject for close up metering.

Best Regards,

Michael

You can do that with your camera.

[hepcat]

<Disclaimer ON> 

I have been a film photographer since 1971.   I have shot Leicas almost constantly since 1974, as well as many other quality cameras.  I received my formal photography education as a US Navy photographer.  I STILL don't "know it all,"  but I've had the opportunity to learn much in those 52 years by making pretty much every mistake that can be made.  

</Disclaimer OFF>

An exposure meter (in camera, top of camera, or hand-held) only helps you determine what light value YOU want to be 18% gray.  It doesn't make any difference where the meter is located, or the brand or type of meter you use, as long as you know it to be accurate at determining 18% gray and you know how to use it properly.  

The biggest issue(s) I see in these discussions is the apparent assumption that exposure is absolute and precise, and that a light meter will render you that absolute value.  It appears that many, from their comments, don't really understand the relationship of film to exposure and the sliding scale that exists between Zone 0 and Zone X.   All an exposure meter does is tells you what exposure you need to set on your camera to expose a particular light source (direct or reflected) to the value of 18% gray (or Zone V).  The rest of the exposure decisions happen in your head.  Exposure is neither absolute NOR precise, except as you choose to use the information your light meter provides you.  B&W flim typically provides enough latitude that your exposure can be "off" by several stops for either highlights or shadows, but you can still have a usable image.   And determining exactly which direction you want to shift your exposure to make the image you want it to be.

This principle is even more important when shooting transparencies.

[Ko.Fe.]

On 4/30/2023 at 11:46 PM, hirohhhh said:

Anyone using on-camera light meters like Keks on film cameras? What are the advantages comparing to the light meter built in the camera?

Also, does the additional bulk added to the camera bothers you? I like the naked camera and I generally don't like to add anything except the strap, but I'd like to hear about your experiences with this meter, so maybe I can find it's use in a certain situations.

I'm one of the few who used film M for real in recent past.

From 2015 to 2021 I was predominantly with film M, loading from bulks and printing twice a week or so.

Never bothered with on-camera things. Not elegant and slow, IMO.

Never seen reason for metered M. Handheld meter was much more effective on learning exposure and meters in mobile phones where the best (basically live view).

And after couple of years, nothing new to meter. 

 

[hansvons]

On 5/1/2023 at 11:01 PM, LocalHero1953 said:

For my meterless cameras I use either a Sekonic L398 (battery-less) or Photo Friend, a smartphone app, that takes a picture of the scene (and histogram) and gives an exposure from that. The advantage is that I can see if it has been biased by bright lights or widespread shadows.

The Sekonik L983 was a staple in cinematography with the great advantage that no dying battery stopped the show. Still have mine. But these days, I use 99% of the time the Luxilux app on the iPhone. It works well if one can interpret reflected metering (e.g., keeping out a bright sky, etc...). Incident metering (Sekonik L398) is better if you can step into the scene and measure, giving you a precise measurement of your key and fill light. In cinematography or studio stills photography, incident metering is easy. Elsewhere not so much. Spot meters have the problem that they meter only a tiny portion of the image. A slightly tanned Caucasian skin tone meets their requirement of 18% grey, and so does light green grass. But that's often unavailable or in the shadow. Or the spot is too granular for the object, and the list goes on. Ultimately, metering within the phone is a convenient and good-enough option.

[hansvons]

7 hours ago, hepcat said:

The rest of the exposure decisions happen in your head.

Precisely.

[hansvons]

On 5/2/2023 at 8:32 PM, madNbad said:

Sekonic L-398 Studio Deluxe. No battery required and had been in production for seventy years. Would have kept the last one I owned but the dial was just loose enough to let the ISO drift when I pulled it out of a pocket.

If its selenium cell is mostly kept in the dark/pouch, it will be accurate for centuries. It's calibrated to ISO 500 for direct reading. I always did/do the maths in my head.

[Michael Geschlecht]

17 hours ago, Topsy said:

You can do that with your camera.

Hello Topsy,

I understand that a person can do that also.

What I was writing about is: If a person has a camera with a clip on meter on a tripod & has arranged things to take a photo & then decides they want to take a close up reading of the subject:

They can remove the meter from the camera & walk up to the subject & take a close up reading:

And not disturb the set up of the camera.

Best Regards,

Michael
 

 

[kivis]

I had been using a iPhone app but it was a tad cumbersome getting to it. And I would forget to use it, so I was getting messed up results. So I got a used VCII external light meter. I'll see how that goes.

[lmans]

I have one of these and when I meter, I do so with this, since I lost my handheld. What I enjoy about this particular meter are the dials instead of just buttons. You force yourself to see and use the dials so you get to know your numbers (F stop and shutter). It isn't all about the arrows. 

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Topsy]

Before the M5/M6 there were no meters in M cameras but now there are metered cameras I don't understand why anyone would buy a meterless MA then put an external meter on top of it.