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In-camera vs on-camera light meters


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Anyone using on-camera light meters like Keks on film cameras? What are the advantages comparing to the light meter built in the camera?

Also, does the additional bulk added to the camera bothers you? I like the naked camera and I generally don't like to add anything except the strap, but I'd like to hear about your experiences with this meter, so maybe I can find it's use in a certain situations.

Edited by hirohhhh
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I have a VC Meter II which works very well but find it more convenient to use a small handheld Meter  as i also could use incident Light reading. I'm quicker and more precise with that.

If you have a built in Meter a on camera Meter doesn't make sense to me.

 

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37 minutes ago, Fotoklaus said:

I have a VC Meter II which works very well but find it more convenient to use a small handheld Meter  as i also could use incident Light reading. I'm quicker and more precise with that.

If you have a built in Meter a on camera Meter doesn't make sense to me.

 

Yes, I have MP. I thought maybe this meter provides functionality that in-camera meter doesn't.

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Leica’s built in meters work well but it’s understandable you’re looking for just a bit more. I really like my Sekonic L-308 but it is a bit large. The Gossen Digisix II would be a good choice. Easily slips in a pocket, accurate, offers both reflective and incident metering plus a few bonus features. It has a digital readout in EV and an analog dial that shows both shutter speed and aperture. It also has a timer, clock, thermometer and and averaging mode.

It would be a fine companion to your MP, small enough to take along for the times you want a meter but not taking up space on your top plate.

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I’ve tried a number of on-camera meters with my M4.  I started with the VC II meter, then the Keks, then the Raveni.  I think the advantage if the VC meter is you can see all exposure equivalents at a glance, but I found using the dials to be a bit slow.  The LED readout on the Keks was difficult to see in sunlight.  Just not practical for me. The Raveni is tiny and unobtrusive, which I like, but the buttons are tiny, too.  The buttons take some getting used to, but I have.   The LED readout on the Raveni is great.  Easily visible under all conditions.  I have Raveni meters now on my M4, iiif, and Rolleiflex.  I also have a Sekonic L308.  It’s a great meter and always in my bag, but I use the Raveni more.

I’ve found all of these meters to be equally accurate for B&W film.

I think using an external meter, on camera or handheld, requires a somewhat different and a tad slower workflow to using an in camera meter.  I tend to meter, set exposure, focus, frame, and shoot.  Then I usually make a 1/2 or 1 stop-over aperture adjustment and bracket a second shot, when feasible.

I’ll use an Olympus OM2 In aperture priority if I want to work faster.

 

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Unless it's a matrix or spot meter in the camera I meter from a mid-tone near me rather than attempt the impossible and meter from the same mid-tone 100 yards away, which is the same practice as using a regular hand held reflectance meter. So whether it's a hand held meter or the one in my MP I meter in a standardised way by pointing the meter at something representing a mid-tone (18% grey), and hardly ever at the scene overall. The obvious advantage is that from camera to camera and meter to meter the results come out the same even if they all have differing angles of view. 

I do have a lot of light meters but 'old faithful' is a Sekonic L-308, or its smaller backup a Sekonic L-208. 

Edited by 250swb
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4 hours ago, hirohhhh said:

Yes, I have MP. I thought maybe this meter provides functionality that in-camera meter doesn't.

Most of the small shoe-mounted models are reflective meters that do no more than a built-in meter, so they are redundant on a camera like the MP. They are generally bought for meterless cameras. A few do have additional functions, like the Gossen Digisix, which has incident metering, or the Digiflash, which adds flash metering. But it's probably easier to use these functions off-camera, in which case you might prefer a larger handheld meter that can have a bigger display and perhaps less fiddly controls.

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I have Pentax Digital Spotmeter, that I love and use from time to time, but I was wondering if shoe mounted meters does anything more than the built-in meter in my camera.

Thanks to all for the answers, I realized I don't need one.

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I have a Keks meter that I use on cameras that don't have a built in meter. It works fine, but the buttons not being labeled means I have to fiddle with them every single time to remember which button does what. And the buttons for adjusting f stop are "backwards" to me. Anyway, I don't dislike it, but it's never even crossed my mind to use it on a camera with a built in meter like my MP. The built in meter is much, much more convenient.

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For critical use I still have a Gossen Luna Lux SBC, that does reflective, incident, and has a spot attachment. Of course it's about the size of my camera, My M2 still uses a LeicaMeter MR, and I have a VC meter II, Digisix (eats batteries), TwinMate, Revini, etc. Most often I just use my M6,

They all work fine once you understand the metering pattern.

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9 hours ago, hirohhhh said:

I have Pentax Digital Spotmeter, that I love and use from time to time, but I was wondering if shoe mounted meters does anything more than the built-in meter in my camera.

Thanks to all for the answers, I realized I don't need one.

The best metering is to have a mirrorless EVF camera with you and get the exposure from that; but who want to do that?

I just shot my first rolls of slide film in decades, and I was concerned about nailing the exposure with the built-in meter, but everything came out perfectly. Not a single over or underexposed image.

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I always prefer a handheld lightmeter when shooting film when I know what shot I am going to take. . Problem is they are slow if you need something immediate. Say a scene pops up and you want to get the shot rapidly. 

 

So I would say use both if you can. I use the mylightmeter app on my iphone paired with the MP light meter in camera. Works perfectly. 

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I used to have MR44 meters for my M bodies, then I excitedly got an M6TTL thinking how convenient that would be without an external meter. The fact is I really hated it. These days I either use an external meter for incident light readings or merely use the Sunny 16 rule on my Leica M and Barnack bodies. Most of my other camera bodies have built in meters which generally work just fine in spite of being aged (like me).

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For my meterless cameras I use either a Sekonic L398 (battery-less) or Photo Friend, a smartphone app, that takes a picture of the scene (and histogram) and gives an exposure from that. The advantage is that I can see if it has been biased by bright lights or widespread shadows.

The Sekonic is simple, can live in my pocket, and can be quickly used one-handed as lighting changes. The phone app is always with me - I don't have to remember to take it.

I had a MC meter or MR4 meter on my M2, but always resented the bulk, and never understood it well enough to get reliable exposures (my fault - I just didn't put the effort in).

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6 hours ago, hdmesa said:

The best metering is to have a mirrorless EVF camera with you and get the exposure from that; but who want to do that?

I just shot my first rolls of slide film in decades, and I was concerned about nailing the exposure with the built-in meter, but everything came out perfectly. Not a single over or underexposed image.

Sometimes I do that, when I have time, mostly for studio work. Great way to pre-visualize how the shot will look like. I heard back in old days, they use Polaroids for this.

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If you’re going to carry a separate meter, it makes sense to choose a meter that can take incident and reflected readings rather than one that is restricted to reflected readings only. 

I think the Voigtlander meter is overpriced for what it is and I don’t like the look of shoe mounted meters on a Leica M.

 

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For my 111 & 111f I use a little Sekonic meter, for 5x4 a Lunasix S with the spot attachment, anything else, R7, Dlux 7, M246, Pentax 645 has built in metering. All seem to nail the exposure correctly. 

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1 hour ago, hirohhhh said:

Sometimes I do that, when I have time, mostly for studio work. Great way to pre-visualize how the shot will look like. I heard back in old days, they use Polaroids for this.

Finally a use for the tiny Sigma fp as the modern day Polaroid! 🙃

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3 hours ago, hirohhhh said:

Sometimes I do that, when I have time, mostly for studio work. Great way to pre-visualize how the shot will look like. I heard back in old days, they use Polaroids for this.

If you watch the documentary of Steve Mcurry shooting the last roll of Kodachrome 64, he uses a Nikon F6.  But first takes a test shot w. a Nikon digicam to verify the exposure!

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13 hours ago, Ouroboros said:

If you’re going to carry a separate meter, it makes sense to choose a meter that can take incident and reflected readings rather than one that is restricted to reflected readings only. 

I think the Voigtlander meter is overpriced for what it is and I don’t like the look of shoe mounted meters on a Leica M.

 

There are nice options out there..

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Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

Although I mostly use a battery-less Sekonic L398a, because any M looks best with nothing on it. :)

 

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