Leica Digital M Cameras

[IkarusJohn]

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As I read the continuing travails of M11 owners, I'm reminded of my own experience of digital M cameras.

I dropped off my M10-D this morning to the local dealer (I now have two M cameras and two M lenses en route to Wetzlar), and I reflected that in the 13 years I have been using Leica cameras, I have had 6 Leica digital cameras, and all of them have been returned to Leica at some stage:

• M9 - sensor corrosion
• Monochrom - can't quite remember what went wrong with this one
• M Edition 60 - bricked
• M10-D - "Sd" error permanently showing
• SL - bricked

I have no issue with Leica's Customer Service, but I was so annoyed when the M8 coffee stain issue emerged, then the M9 corrosion, that I decided to buy an M-A; primarily because I like film and it has no electronics.

This really isn't very good.  I'm not bashing Leica, and I am unlikely to change to another system (though returning to Hasselblad with the X2D is very tempting), but for a very expensive product, aimed at photographers, surely they can do better?

Good luck to M11 owners - I hope your Leica journey is better than mine.

[gotium]

No, not better, but in my case, tainted by some extremely difficult experiences  with Lieca service in New Jersey. I’ve sworn off Leica completely several times over, but then they come out with more products I can’t resist…

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[lct]

Been luckier, fortunately. The "coffee stain" of my M8.2 has disappeared by itself, my M240 is solid as a tank and my M11 is now working perfectly. I even got used to its stapler sound... Touch wood.

[IkarusJohn]

I remember why I sent the Monochrom back - sensor corrosion.

That camera has worked perfectly since, til I dropped it last week … 🫣

Edited May 1 by IkarusJohn

[Ouroboros]

By nature I’m very cagey about buying new Leica cameras and lenses mainly because of Leica’s non existent professional support.

I’ve only ever bought three new Leica M çameras; an MP in 2004 (still going strong after 100’s of films and problem free regular use), an M10-R bp in 2021 (no problems to report after almost daily use and a lot of travel) and a black M-A which I bought for my eldest son in 2022.

The M-A purchase was initially a QC disaster, the first two bodies were faulty out of the box.  The first had a huge jagged and obvious hole in the film cassette chamber that leaked light from the viewfinder, causing fogging.  This camera was replaced with a new body which arrived with a partially detached shutter curtain, which was so obvious on opening the camera back that a four year old would have seen it. That body was  replaced with a third new body which, so far, has been trouble-free.

I had money burning a hole in my pocket for a new 35mm summilux sr reissue, but when early adopter reports of disintegrating diaphragms began to appear, I binned the idea. 
 

As for the M11, no thanks. I see it as an interim camera.  I might be tempted by a future M12 if it proves to be a more mature product but I’ll let the early adopters work that one out for me first.

 

[Gelatino]

Some of my gear had minor problems solved by a 3weeks travel to Germany or a two days stay in CLA: both M10 and 11 had to be serviced , all lenses (except the  35mms and the 75) went back to Wetzlar for lack of precision, I sold off 80 Euro the EVF 020 as the plastic had cracked in several places...

To be positive I must say that I had absolutely no issue with the M10 grip, pouches, batteries and the strap (the 14312 that Leica does not anymore provide )

Guess where's my tongue😜

[adan]

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Well, it was said, in past decades, that Leitz/Leica and electronics don't mix. See: Maybe the M5 (although that's more a matter of taste and design than quality),original M4-2 winder design, R4s and motors (early production), R8/9 winders.

But I have been generally lucky with the digitals.

M8s - I wanted so much that I actually had my rep swipe a defective one from the first batch, warty sensor and all (green streaks and blobs, waterfall effects) right out of the shipment going back to Germany for the recall. I shot with it for 6 months by simply avoiding the problem situations, then sent it in for repair under warranty once I had a backup body, Traded both for my first M9, before they caught the LCD disease.

M9s/M Mono 1 - Only one out of the three acquired sensor corrosion before the M10 arrived (dry climate, I guess), and the one that did got in under the wire for free replacement, so no real operational impacts there. The first one, which I received in Sept. 2009, I was using until March 2017, so 7.5 years. There was abrief time where one body was producing some excess noise or odd patterns or something (I forget exactly what) - but that was fixed with new firmware and/or finally dumping my batteries that were holdovers from the M8 era.

M10s - no problems so far (the earliest is from 2017, with easily over 100,000 actuations, as was the one that I traded for an M10-P last December (per my camera shop, who checked its count for resale).

Film bodies (M4-2 and M6x2) only had to go in for service because *I* dropped one, and burned a hole in another's shutter.

[LocalHero1953]

New M9, M240, SL, TL2, CL, SL2, SL2-S, MP - no problems with any of them apart from rangefinder calibration with the M9, M240, neither of them at time of delivery. 

[M9reno]

I just shot an R9 + DMR at the May morning festivities in Oxford.  Old batteries held up despite the chill.  Sensor made in AD 2005 pumped up to the max 800 ISO.  Carpe diem is how this combo makes me feel.  Some day it too will die, but so far it is flawless!  Happy May Day everybody.

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[ianforber]

I’m clearly very odd. Since 1980 I’ve had 7 camera types plus a couple of compact cameras. Never had a problem with any of them. 

[elmars]

vor 11 Stunden schrieb IkarusJohn:

As I read the continuing travails of M11 owners, I'm reminded of my own experience of digital M cameras.

I dropped off my M10-D this morning to the local dealer (I now have two M cameras and two M lenses en route to Wetzlar), and I reflected that in the 13 years I have been using Leica cameras, I have had 6 Leica digital cameras, and all of them have been returned to Leica at some stage:

• M9 - sensor corrosion
• Monochrom - can't quite remember what went wrong with this one
• M Edition 60 - bricked
• M10-D - "Sd" error permanently showing
• SL - bricked

I have no issue with Leica's Customer Service, but I was so annoyed when the M8 coffee stain issue emerged, then the M9 corrosion, that I decided to buy an M-A; primarily because I like film and it has no electronics.

This really isn't very good.  I'm not bashing Leica, and I am unlikely to change to another system (though returning to Hasselblad with the X2D is very tempting), but for a very expensive product, aimed at photographers, surely they can do better?

Good luck to M11 owners - I hope your Leica journey is better than mine.

I am sorry to hear that. I myself had no problems with my four digital and two analog Leicas, except that my M9 had sensor corrosion. And two lenses were out of alignment. I can understand the frustration and anger though, because I had quite a few problems with German or Swedish cars.

In the time before Andreas Kaufmann bought Leica, there were quite some quality problems in my perception. That has gradually gotten better. I believe that if there were major structural problems beyond the usual scale, Leica would not be making so much profit. But I don't think you can expect the same level of flawlessness as with the largely automated manufacturing of the large Asian producers. The more humans are involved, the more errors there are.

[M11 for me]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb ianforber:

I’m clearly very odd. Since 1980 I’ve had 7 camera types plus a couple of compact cameras. Never had a problem with any of them. 

So I must be very odd as well 😇

Besides the bidies I have 6. Leica lenses. And they all work fine since I bought them.

I believe that it is more than just luck. After all Leica can not let its products out into the world without good quality control. The question would rather be for me how many defective products they have out there as DOA or after one year and just before end of warranty. This then compared to other brands. We know none of this. Neither from Leica nir from other brands.

[dpitt]

I did have an M8 with a coffee stain and an M9 with sensor corrosion. If something similar had happened with other major brands, I would probably have lost all of my investment (both happened well out of warranty).

Now, for my M8 I got offered an upgrade to a brand new M9 for a very good price. I sold it immediately and then bought a second M8 (in better condition) and still had money to spare.

With the M9 I got a free sensor swap by Leica service even more than a year out of warranty. The camera was checked and cleaned for free in the process.

So in both cases I actually saved/made money by these failures. I  would not know what I could have expected more. And these issues come from Leica's quest to always try to move the mile posts. (Everyone said a digital M was impossible before the M8 came out... and then a FF M was impossible before the M9 came out). If you buy a new camera before the warranty on your current one then it is a diiferent story, but after more than 10 years both my M8 and M9 are still with me (and they are worth more now than I payed for them)

[Jeff S]

I tend not to be an early adopter, instead preferring for others to act as beta testers.  
 

Skipped the M8; two M8.2s were without issue.  
 

Skipped the M9; bought the M(9) Monochrom mint used, just sent to the dealer from Wetzlar, with new sensor and warranty.  Has been problem for 5-6 years.

Bought M240, well after any initial teething issues; no problems. 
 

Traded the M240 on an M10 after not hearing about any major M10 issues; no service required.

Traded the M10 on an M10-R (BP), and added the M10 Monochrom.  First time I bought somewhat earlier in the cycle, but the M10 platform seemed robust and stable by then. No issues to date.

 

No interest in M11, both because of early stage with new platform, and because new features don’t address any personal needs.

 

Jeff

Edited May 1 by Jeff S

[colint544]

I bought a brand new M9-P in 2011. It worked flawlessly for the year I had it, before I traded it in for a brand new M9 Monochrom. That camera also worked flawlessly until 2015 when I dropped it onto a concrete pavement, knocking the rangefinder out of alignment. Eventually I got around to sending it back to Leica. They picked up corrosion on the sensor, so they fitted the new corrosion-proof sensor, re-aligned the rangefinder, and did a CLA. They didn't charge me a penny for any of this, not even the postage both ways. M9 Monochrom is still going strong, never misses a beat.

About a month ago, I sold a few things and bought a brand new M11 in the black finish. First thing I did was fully charge the battery, then update the firmware. The camera is an absolute joy to use, it's light years ahead of the M9 Monochrom. I've had no problems with it, not a single lock-up or freeze but, for now, it's still at the back of my mind that some people have found their M11 to be unreliable. Time will tell, I guess, and it has a warranty. I wouldn't really class myself as an early adopter, as the M11 has been out for well over a year.

I also have three film M bodies - M2, M4, and M5. They all work great. I guess I'm (so far) one of the lucky ones?

 

[IkarusJohn]

You’re not alone, Colin!  I really like my M cameras, and I’m generally very happy with the excellent service I’ve had with Leica Customer Service - but … it’s a hell of a hit rate.

My Monochrom has also worked without a hitch (excluding the replacement sensor, v2 at no cost), until I dropped it …

The M10-D failure was a surprise, as it has worked without a hitch since I bought it in 2018 - suddenly, the Sd red light and that was it.  I haven’t heard of this failure before.

I do think that my M-A will be my last M camera; time will tell.

[pippy]

My M8.2 developed a shutter-fault but at the time it had been on a long-term-loan (well over one year) to a friend who had never been a Leica-shooter so don't know if the fault was down to the camera or the user's lack of familiarity with the thing. When back at Wetzlar the body was misplaced somehow but Leica sent me an M9 in exchange (which I didn't ever use).

Apart from that? My M9-P developed sensor cover-glass corrosion which was fixed under the replacement scheme and subsequently worked flawlessly for nigh-on 80,000 clicks before being traded-in, along with the M9 mentioned above, for a s/h very-slightly-used (sub-150 frames) original Monochrom. This Monochrom - which was bought originally as part of the factory-refurbished a-la-carte program and as such already had the v2 sensor - has been perfect. My M-D Typ-262 has also worked without a hitch.

What on Earth am I doing right?..................

Philip.

[jakontil]

I have been oke with leica i purchased, once i dropped a M240p on concrete from a meter height, RF was still oke, so kept using it, my M60 was shortlived as traded it for SL which i didnt use much 

going back to M10, was lucky to escape a sticky iso dial problem inherited the early production and swapped it for m10D which i used vigorously for a couple of years with no glitch and still thought it was the best M digital in my experience 

bought MP back in 2021, right out the box, LM didnt show up, got it replaced and worked flawlessly since though i felt when winding films sometimes it felt weird but nothing major

my M6 TTL dragon was sent to local CLA recently since developing a minor haze on the viewfinder, solved and my M2R which was rarely used also developed a common horizontal light leaks, solved 

got m11 april last year, it was very good experience, didnt have as frequent lock ups as reported and still used it sparingly with my m10r black paint which have always been rock solid *knock on wood*

i had a bad experience with lenses though, one of them being a summicron 50 safari, unopened right frm leica store abroad, i didnt get the chance to test but when got home it was misaligned by much but yeah thanks to local techs, for minor problem i didnt have to deal with leica mothership

[JIEFACHE]

My first  M240 was sent twice to Solms-Wetzlar, since I got, despite maximum economy settings, only about 250 shots out of several fully loaded batteries. The camera (very first batch)  is still absolutely troublesome and reliable.

Not so the lenses, parts becoming lose, lenses out of focus. The M3 quality is long gone, and the price no longer reflects the quality. Don't tell me please that salaries are high in Germany. I know they are. But what about Japanese salaries? Are the  highly skilled Japanese  Canikonpana employees underpayed, I guess not. I own 14 Canon L lenses, 3 cameras. Not one single issue, like with my dear old Leicas M2, M3, M5, M6, M6TTL, Leicaflex SL & SL2.   R4s2, R6 anrd R7 were unfortunately a different story (I'm not particularly tender with cameras, all plastic parts eventually broke off).

I now simply refuse to spend 13000 Euros on an M plus 1,4/50, without the guarantee of trouble-free use.(ISO wheel...)

(But I'm still tempted and live in fear of getting weak again, once an M...)

 

Edited May 10 by JIEFACHE

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[lct]

27 minutes ago, JIEFACHE said:

Not so the lenses, parts becoming lose, lenses out of focus. The M3 quality is long gone

Old story. Began with the M4-2 in the eighties if memory serves. Mine had a shutter that could not resist the Leica winder. In 40+ years and 7 M bodies, it is the only one i had to return TBH.

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