Contemplating Forgiveness--Why Do We Accept the M8?

[sean_reid]

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Some of the beta testers later said that they had mentioned the problem to Leica, who had requested that it not be published, to allow for time to fix it. This is all normal. The problem is that it wasn't fixed, and no filter deal was mentioned until later.

 

Which beta testers are those? I hadn't seen that. The only incident I recall is a Canadian reviewer who reviewed a production camera, saw the green blob problem and reported that to Leica. But I don't know what went on in Europe. Leica beta testers and reviewers often are not the same people - at least not in the US.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

[sean_reid]

O.K., I'll try a "soft release." How do I get a few?

 

I haven't asked Leica to adjust anything because five cameras have been so similar that I have thought it a design problem. And, honestly, I can't imagine Leica accomplishing something like this competently. I have better reliability, communication and feelback from my bank and insurance company. The older film cameras could be serviced by good, independent mechanics and this is one of the real problems with the M8.

 

Thanks,

Walt

 

Hi Walt,

 

Do a search for Tom Abrahamson's site. I can't recall what it is.

 

Edit:

 

Looks like you already found the link. I use the outermost of the two creases in my shutter finger to press the shutter. It took a little getting used to but I love it.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

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[hankg]

My apologies to the OP for perpetuating the hijacking of this thread in order to redress erroneous comments.

 

Pete.

 

You know I used the ignore list for the first time yesterday and I must say the forum is much improved from my perspective. Try it, you'll lower your irritation level and improve the signal to noise ratio.

[stunsworth]

Do a search for Tom Abrahamson's site. I can't recall what it is

 

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Tom is a gentleman, I haven't dealt with him for years, but it was a pleasure when I did.

[Guest tummydoc]

Brad must've made some sense because I understood the jist of his post.

 

Pete.

 

Surely you comprehend that understanding something, which I also did, doesn't imply that it makes sense, which it did not.

[stunsworth]

Moving further down the digestive tract I believe Brad is saying that you're a pain in the arse. Does that make sense or shall I lube up the endoscope?

[sean_reid]

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Tom is a gentleman, I haven't dealt with him for years, but it was a pleasure when I did.

 

Absolutely. Tom's been an asset to Leica M photographers for a long time.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

[stunsworth]

Tom's been an asset to Leica M photographers for a long time

 

I just hope he manages to get his M8 grip to market.

[farnz]

Surely you comprehend that understanding something, which I also did, doesn't imply that it makes sense, which it did not.

Vinay,

 

Your slip is showing.

 

Pete.

[Guest tummydoc]

Moving further down the digestive tract I believe Brad is saying that you're a pain in the arse. Does that make sense or shall I lube up the endoscope?

 

I also understood what Brad was implying. How he expressed himself did not, does not, and will not ever make sense.

 

Vinay,

 

Your slip is showing.

 

Pete.

 

No, you're just intent on looking up my kilt

[stunsworth]

You mean you _don't_ think you're a pain in the arse?

[jrc]

I had one of the earliest M8s, had to send it in for the fix, had it break down comprehensively, had it swapped for a new body. So I got the M8 just short of a year ago, and it's been away getting fixed or swapped for the best part of three months, and various lenses have been away for various additional amounts of time, and some free filters took so long getting here that I bought open-market ones instead of waiting for the Leicas.

 

It *is* a lot to put up with; but I have lots of cameras, and when I go off for a ramble, I take the Leica with a 75 mounted and a 35 or a 21 in my pocket. That's a very comfortable, easy-to-use arrangement for me, the weight is unnoticable, and the IQ is exceptional. Sometimes -- often -- I never take a shot, but I don't resent carrying the camera because it's so small.

 

Honestly, one of the things that makes it possible to put up with the Leica is that I'm an amateur. I don't depend on each press of the finger producing a publishable shot. If I did, I'd probably be carrying a D2x. Now, if I miss a shot (which I haven't with the new body, that I can recall) I'd simply take it again, if it was available, and if not, not -- I'm an amateur.

 

I have taken photos professionally (well, for publication at any rate -- several hundred, I suppose, published in large newspapers and magazines; and have worked as the sole photographer on major archaeological digs) in the past, and may do so again in the future. If I do, will probably use the Nikon -- I have a full D2x/Nikon system and I've already ordered a D3: for PJ-style work I want the AF, the speed, the big cache, the good WB (full frame I don't care about.)

 

But, when I'm exercising my amateur status, the M8 is perfect.

 

JC

[carstenw]

Which beta testers are those? I hadn't seen that. The only incident I recall is a Canadian reviewer who reviewed a production camera, saw the green blob problem and reported that to Leica. But I don't know what went on in Europe. Leica beta testers and reviewers often are not the same people - at least not in the US.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

I thought that Michael Reichmann had sent in some comments? He said as much later on, didn't he?

[Guest Walt]

Hi Walt,

 

Do a search for Tom Abrahamson's site. I can't recall what it is.

 

Edit:

 

Looks like you already found the link. I use the outermost of the two creases in my shutter finger to press the shutter. It took a little getting used to but I love it.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

I ordered four buttons from Tom, two small, two large. He was very nice to deal with--I wish he had something else I wanted because I'd buy it just to give him the business.

 

To update on the shutter release mods--I'm finding the one camera I lubricated externally to be such a delight that I'm going to wait and see how long the lubrication lasts. If it is too short lived (or the Teflon fouls the contacts), I'll open up the camera and try Mark's approach. My thanks also to Carsten for a lot of private communication on this subject. As it is right now, I would never have had any complaints about the shutter release. I sometimes actually wonder if anyone at Leica ever tried *using* this camera before selling it to the public.

 

Speaking of using the camera, my second body is out right now getting recovered in "Griptac." I'm looking forward to that too, and I'll send off the second body as soon as I get that one back. We're also putting a rectangular strip of the material on the back of the top plate where the thumb falls. I tried a temporary strip of rubber there and it made all the difference. Morgan, at Camera Leather, tells me he needs each camera for 24 hours. I wish he'd get into M8 overhauls.

 

So, thanks Mark, Carsten, Sean, Hank, Tom and Morgan. You've given me more help getting this camera usable than I've needed in the previous 40 pre-M8 years combined.

 

Walt

[carstenw]

It is sad that it was necessary, glad that I could help. I hope that by pushing through this difficult time of ours that we have helped Leica pull through a difficult time of their own. I would never have forgiven myself for putting up a stink if Leica had gone out of business.

[Guest tummydoc]

You mean you _don't_ think you're a pain in the arse?

 

To a few arses who shall remain nameless.

[sean_reid]

I thought that Michael Reichmann had sent in some comments? He said as much later on, didn't he?

 

I doubt it. If you look through the articles, you'll see that he hadn't noticed the IR sensitivity until it came up here. It wouldn't show up on a Greta MacBeth color chart test which is, if I recall, what he did.

 

Michael commented to them about a green blob he saw in a couple of pictures. If I recall, the hardware fix was related to this but, frankly, I can't recall.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

[BerndReini]

Assuming you accepted your M8 when it first became available, that would average to more than 300 shots/day (roughly the equivalent of 9 36-exp films), 7 days per week. Assuming you post-processed all of them (with at the very least an obligatory 'tweak' for WB ), when do you sleep?

 

I don't. That's why I added one zero too many. Sorry. 12,500 exposures to date. I fully expect my M8 shutter to blow up by 100,000 exposures, but then I'll just send it to Solms and six months later I'll have it back.

[ho_co]

A lot of good information exchange here, and a fair amount of soul baring.

 

To summarize the points made above: smaller, lighter, more fun, manual focus, unbeatable image quality, less intimidating, rangefinder. And this response by Walt sums that all up:

I just ain't got anything better and the images are fine.

That Walt should have such a concise summary is apropos, because the question occurred to me after seeing his award exhibit in San Francisco, in knowledge of the repeated problems he has had with the camera.

 

Jamie and Jaap both say something very similar:

To answer the questions, it's because of the ergonimics and the files that I "forgive" minor quirks of the system.

Minor glitches - well I guess that comes under the heading of forgiveness in the context of this thread,, but I would rather call it common sense to accept them.

 

Tim Barker in post #55 and Hank Graber in post #62 put the question in perspective and remind us that the M8 doesn’t exist in a vacuum.

 

And Jamie sums up with the central point around which all the responses seem to revolve, and which I think is the heart and soul of the Leica experience:

There are no "major problems" that "plague this camera" if what you want to do is make excellent photographs. If you don't know what you're doing, the M9 will not save you from yourself.

 

But all this must stand or fall before Carsten’s caveat:

I do expect (I mean that in the imperative sense) them to get the M9 right, however!

 

 

BTW, I chose the term “forgiveness” for the title deliberately, because a lot of us have some emotional attachment to the camera—see, for example posts #21, #39.

 

 

And considering the “Ignore” list, I’ve always liked magyarman’s term better: the ‘ignorance list.’

 

HC

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