Contemplating Forgiveness--Why Do We Accept the M8?

[ho_co]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

I. SITUATION: holiday; ca 1400 RAW exposures made with firmware 1.107

 

a. One file truncated and written to card at 2.05 MB

 

b. Three black exposures, one at 32 sec, two at 1/8000 sec (camera at auto exposure)

 

c. Two frames grossly overexposed, 2 sec and 6 sec respectively. where 1/90 to 1/125 would have been correct (camera at auto exposure)

 

d. Occasional occurrence of red stripes/Venetian blinds display in review

 

e. EXIF on one occasion shows (mis-)identification of uncoded lens

 

f. Light arc on 39 frames

 

g. Auto White Balance unpredictable

 

h. In 23 cases, camera skipped a file number, though “Image Unique ID” was properly incremented

 

i. Camera locked up perhaps half a dozen times, requiring battery removal and reinsertion to restore operation

 

j. On two occasions, camera failed to wake from sleep when I pressed shutter release fully, causing missed shots

 

 

II. MY REACTION: Generally pleased with the camera, delighted by image quality

 

 

III. QUESTION: We wouldn’t accept a Nikon or Canon if it behaved this way. Why do we accept the M8, and even expand our systems with additional lenses and bodies?

 

 

 

NOTE:

I’m not interested in camera-bashing. And I’m aware that most of the above behaviors have already been documented on the forum, that workarounds have been suggested for many of them, and that firmware updates are expected to correct others.

 

I’m simply asking: What is it about this camera system that lets us refer to these as “quirks,” while they would be unacceptable flaws in another line?

 

 

—HC

[rob_x2004]

It isnt acceptable. The camera could be on everybodies want list.

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[mat_mcdermott]

For me, the reason I accept the M8 as it stands is because I want a digital rangefinder, full stop. Not a single "quirk" the camera has is a deal breaker--though there are a couple of things if improved in a subsequent model would cause me to upgrade (a quieter shutter alone would be enough). So far (knocking on wood) I have experienced no more trouble with my M8 than I have with any other digital camera I have owned, or any other computerized product I have owned. If this forum is an accurate gauge of problems, my experience has been better than many others.

[hankg]

I accept the M8 because it has performed flawlessly for me. If I couldn't rely on it or it was a constant headache I'd dump it and use something else.

[M6J]

I need a small camera that can produce files as good as my D2X or better. I don't really need any better IQ. But I do need a smaller camera with small prime lenses of the highest quality.

If there was such a camera more reliable than the M8 then I would buy that one instead. But there isn't.

[Guest]

I accept the M8 because it has performed flawlessly for me. If I couldn't rely on it or it was a constant headache I'd dump it and use something else.

__________________

Hank Graber

Hank Graber : Photographs

 

Mine are the same.

Brian:D

[grduprey]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

I will keep mine and accept it without reservation, as it has performed without a single problem for the past 10 months ( the total time I have had it). I take it with me all the time, and my D200 just sits there, unless my wife picks it up, or I have left my R8 at home due to no film.

Besides that, it is the only digital RF worth buying, just can't see getting a RD-1.

Gene

[orjanf]

Perhaps because the M8 is easy to carry, pleasant to use and capable of producing better images than my Canons and L lenses?

 

I have hade about half a dozen pictures out of 3000 marred by quirks.

About 2000 have been spoilt by user error and misjudgement.

I, myself, could do with a firmware upgrade.

 

Since I am not a professional photographer I can afford to be tolerant of camera quirks.

 

However the camera has fewer quirks than the computers that I depend on for a living.

Perhaps we could start a thread listing Mac and Windows quirks?

(only while the computer was used for M8 related tasks, of course)

[Guest tummydoc]

I won't try to generalise as to why individuals accept the M8. The only generality I am relatively confident to make is that it is probably voluntary for the majority. The cases of obsessive compulsion appear limited to a few, easily recognised by the passion with which they continue to deny and excuse it's shortcomings and the fierceness with which they continue to attack anyone who challenges their beliefs.

 

I can only say why I accept the M8, and the reasons are twofold. One, I'm a serious Leica collector and the M8 is a landmark product for the company, not to mention it gives me the possibility of utilising my lens collection without the bother of film and scanning. Two, I have a Nikon D200 (and soon, D300) which has been 100% reliable, doesn't require IR filters, has an AWB good enough to shoot JPEGs (although I do not, ordinarily), and I can use almost any Nikon F-mount lens in existence by simply inputting the focal length and maximum aperture to a menu...which BTW I have never forgot to re-set, despite Leica's official position that I am too feeble-minded to be allowed such autonomous freedom. So the M8 is for me a recreational toy upon which I do not need, nor do I dare, depend for once-in-a-lifetime photographs of family, friends, or travel.

 

BTW, an aside to the OP: what is the serial # batch of your problematic M8?

[stunsworth]

...despite Leica's official position that I am too feeble-minded to be allowed such autonomous freedom.

 

Ah, you got the letter too. I thought it was just me.

 

As for the initial question from Howard of 'why?' I can only say that the answer is because I have had no serious problems with my M8 and it has given me more photographic pleasure than all the other digital cameras I've used over the last 6 years rolled together. Ten months and over 9000 photographs since I bought it, I still look forward to putting the camera in the bag and leaving the house.

 

Best camera I've ever owned.

[larry]

These must be rocks in someone else's shoes. The list of the M8's endearing qualities is far longer than the list of its deficiencies – too long to list here. I've never owned a camera that didn't have some alleged fatal flaws.

 

Larry

[stunsworth]

Larry, it is like Groundhog Day in here sometimes <grin>

[sdai]

It's called a momentary lapse of reason, Howard. There should be a Pink Floyd Edition of the M8.

[jonoslack]

2 weeks in Crete

2 bodies

2000 shots

zebra stripes 3 or 4 times

1 hanging requiring removing battery

no images damaged by anyone but me.

 

 

1 week in Italy

2 bodies

1000 shots

zebra stripes once

no hanging

rubbish all my responsibility.

 

I've had many (too many) digital cameras, and they have all had issues (including the D200). In over a year I think I've had 2 shots which had green banding I couldn't easily remove, plenty of review quirks and a few hangs (but I think all the cameras I've had have hung occasionally).

 

I'm not in denial, I know it isn't perfect, but it isn't something that needs any kind of forgiveness . . . plus it's taught me a whole new way of taking pictures.

[robertwright]

I. SITUATION: holiday; ca 1400 RAW exposures made with firmware 1.107

 

a. One file truncated and written to card at 2.05 MB

 

b. Three black exposures, one at 32 sec, two at 1/8000 sec (camera at auto exposure)

 

c. Two frames grossly overexposed, 2 sec and 6 sec respectively. where 1/90 to 1/125 would have been correct (camera at auto exposure)

 

d. Occasional occurrence of red stripes/Venetian blinds display in review

 

e. EXIF on one occasion shows (mis-)identification of uncoded lens

 

f. Light arc on 39 frames

 

g. Auto White Balance unpredictable

 

h. In 23 cases, camera skipped a file number, though “Image Unique ID” was properly incremented

 

i. Camera locked up perhaps half a dozen times, requiring battery removal and reinsertion to restore operation

 

j. On two occasions, camera failed to wake from sleep when I pressed shutter release fully, causing missed shots

 

 

II. MY REACTION: Generally pleased with the camera, delighted by image quality

 

 

III. QUESTION: We wouldn’t accept a Nikon or Canon if it behaved this way. Why do we accept the M8, and even expand our systems with additional lenses and bodies?

 

 

 

NOTE:

I’m not interested in camera-bashing. And I’m aware that most of the above behaviors have already been documented on the forum, that workarounds have been suggested for many of them, and that firmware updates are expected to correct others.

 

I’m simply asking: What is it about this camera system that lets us refer to these as “quirks,” while they would be unacceptable flaws in another line?

 

 

—HC

 

the file naming issue, writing problems and lockup suggest something seriously wrong with your particular body. I have never had any file naming skips and the only time I had an image not write it was a bad SD card (perhaps your problem?). I can easily accept the "quirks" of the camera but to me these are not quirks, they are job-enders for me. It would have to go in for repair.

 

I think we accept some of this because it is the only game it town if you want manual focusing, rangefinder, and the advantages that affords.

[MartinL]

I. SITUATION: holiday; ca 1400 RAW exposures . . . a. . .j

 

—HC

How, and by what perverse (in a good way:) ) frame of mind do you manage this sort of record keeping? I'm amazed.

 

I've lost more shots because of my lens cap than any technical flaw, but I haven't kept track. I have substantial Canon SLR gear and it has its idiosyncratic moments. My 70-200 lens will freeze up about once a shoot. Has to come off the camera to click the shutter. Then I remount. My 1D Mk II has been to Canon repair 3 x because of "rare" problems (like the hot shoe loosening, weird shutter hiccup, and once more that I forgot).

 

IMO, the difference between a "quirk" and a . . .what? ...an "outrage?"...is usually pretty clear. M8 has been outrage free (except for that inexplicable broken LCD repair for $440). But enough about me.

 

I love the camera.

[stunsworth]

Regarding the Exif showing a focal length when a non-coded lens is mounted, I've had this occur when lens recognition is on and a non-coded lens used. This was with a screw mount lens with a Leica adaptor with the cut out in the area of the sensor. Since other people have reported the same thing, it seems probable that the 'issue' is caused by light striking the sensor and fooling it into thinking that a coded lens is mounted.

[delander †]

I have a 'love - hate' relationship with the camera. Or should that be 'like - dislike'. I like a lot of things about it but I don't see why problems such as Venetian blinds/scrolling/AWB etc cant be solved by Leica in a timely fashion. It seems simply unprofessional of them.

 

It is looking like we are now thinking the M9 will fix all these issues.

 

I often think I will sell the lot but then again hmm.

 

I have not yet installed the new FW. It seems to me that it really just allows use of the new Summarits, the rest is token, no real effort to resolve issues.

 

Jeff

[35mmSummicron]

the new FW resolves one of the issues you are complaining about.

 

/a

 

 

I have a 'love - hate' relationship with the camera. Or should that be 'like - dislike'. I like a lot of things about it but I don't see why problems such as Venetian blinds/scrolling/AWB etc cant be solved by Leica in a timely fashion. It seems simply unprofessional of them.

 

It is looking like we are now thinking the M9 will fix all these issues.

 

I often think I will sell the lot but then again hmm.

 

I have not yet installed the new FW. It seems to me that it really just allows use of the new Summarits, the rest is token, no real effort to resolve issues.

 

Jeff

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[farnz]

Simple for me: the glass and the image quality.

 

Pete.