Leica Lens Survey Today – Hints at Possible New Lenses

[lct]

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2 minutes ago, hdmesa said:

So you do want tiny not just compact

Compact like all 35/2 pre-asph lenses since the fifties. Tiny would be a lens like the Elmarit 40/2.8. BTW Leica could try such a size for its 35/2.8, it would have one interest at least

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[hdmesa]

4 minutes ago, lct said:

Compact like all 35/2 pre-asph lenses since the fifties. Tiny would be a lens like the Elmarit 40/2.8. BTW Leica could try such a size for its 35/2.8, it would have one interest at least

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That's not just tiny, that's a pancake! 😂 🫠

[rtai]

I don’t spend a lot of time following Leica news so excuse me if an EVF only M body has already been discussed. Updating popular lenses for close focusing and now the possibility of very big lenses certainly point to the inevitable. 

[lct]

6 minutes ago, hdmesa said:

That's not just tiny, that's a pancake! 😂 🫠

Far from this  Leica could try something like that (adapted Tessar 35/3.5)

 

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[Jeff S]

35 minutes ago, hdmesa said:

Understandable. Also no reason Leica couldn't produce two versions at the same time – simpler 0.7m and close focus editions.

 

 

Probably too late now.  I might well have purchased a simpler, but still optically stellar, 35 APO at $1-2k less than the current price.  I’m sure the added feature helped market/justify the high price, especially while maintaining small dimensions. Leica would now have to design out the complexity and still pay for the added trouble. But I know nothing about their margins or customer demand.  Meanwhile, the 35 Summicron ASPH v.1 and 35 Summilux ASPH (FLE) are still very capable lenses for my needs.  
 

Jeff

[hdmesa]

17 minutes ago, lct said:

Far from this  Leica could try something like that (adapted Tessar 35/3.5)

 

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That’s no pancake; that’s a body cap! 😁

[adan]

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Thanks for this post, and to Leica for asking.  

General response: My desire for lenses is always dependent on the whole package, not just one feature. Weight, size, imaging, aperture, focus-range, color-palette, even focus-throw; all factor in. Although I do at the moment have, by intent, the lightest (within 10 grams or so) modern (post-1969) versions of focal lengths 135/75*/50/35/21, for their apertures (3.4/1.5/2/2/2.8)

On Close Focus: I'm an optical-finder-only guy, and I find that the 0.7m 75mm lenses (C/V and Leica) have handled close-ups very well for me. Not something I desire in any other focal length.

Except perhaps 21mm. The original 21mm Super-Angulon f/3.4 of the 1960s-70s could scale-focus down to 0.4m (and with the DoF of 21mm f/3.4 and smaller, was quite easy to guess-focus). And made for some very dramatic shots without having to resort to another camera system.

So extending the close-focus of the Super-Elmar-M to 0.4m (without too big a price or weight hike) would make that VERY INTERESTING to me, and might finally pry me away from my 1980-ish 21mm Elmarit-M.

On the 35mms: For me, 35mm has to be a speed lens (f/2 or better), alongside my 50. So the 35mm f/2.8 Summaron Elmarit-M is not a big draw - I have the v.4 Summicron.

HOWEVER, I fully recognize that for others it may be a great way to get back to ~the compactness of the 35 Summicron v.4, at not far off the v.4's current used value. (Recall that the tiny 28mm Elmarit-M ASPH was partly introduced to provide that size/weight for that ~field of view on the cropped M8.  ) And probably with better corner performance than the v.4 at f/2.8-4. And I do think Leica should make it.

HOWEVER (again), speed does have to be balanced against M-appropriate size and weight, so I am not inspired by large/heavy 35mm Noctiluxes of any type. f/2 is the sweet spot for me. But it is a judgement call - I won't argue against those with other needs or desires.

__________________

*My current 75 is the C/V Nokton f/1.5 - weight of a Summarit (335g), speed of a Summilux.

[hdmesa]

19 minutes ago, adan said:

General response: My desire for lenses is always dependent on the whole package, not just one feature. Weight, size, imaging, aperture, focus-range, color-palette, even focus-throw; all factor in. Although I do at the moment have, by intent, the lightest (within 10 grams or so) modern (post-1969) versions of focal lengths 135/75*/50/35/21, for their apertures (3.4/1.5/2/2/2.8)

There were several questions about this balance, even one where you ordered all the criteria from most important to least.

19 minutes ago, adan said:

On Close Focus: I'm an optical-finder-only guy, and I find that the 0.7m 75mm lenses (C/V and Leica) have handled close-ups very well for me. Not something I desire in any other focal length.

Except perhaps 21mm. The original 21mm Super-Angulon f/3.4 of the 1960s-70s could scale-focus down to 0.4m (and with the DoF of 21mm f/3.4 and smaller, was quite easy to guess-focus). And made for some very dramatic shots without having to resort to another camera system.

So extending the close-focus of the Super-Elmar-M to 0.4m (without too big a price or weight hike) would make that VERY INTERESTING to me, and might finally pry me away from my 1980-ish 21mm Elmarit-M.

The wider the focal length, the more it makes sense for close focus, so I agree.

19 minutes ago, adan said:

On the 35mms: For me, 35mm has to be a speed lens (f/2 or better), alongside my 50. So the 35mm f/2.8 Summaron Elmarit-M is not a big draw - I have the v.4 Summicron.

HOWEVER, I fully recognize that for others it may be a great way to get back to ~the compactness of the 35 Summicron v.4, at not far off the v.4's current used value. (Recall that the tiny 28mm Elmarit-M ASPH was partly introduced to provide that size/weight for that ~field of view on the cropped M8.  ) And probably with better corner performance than the v.4 at f/2.8-4. And I do think Leica should make it.

HOWEVER (again), speed does have to be balanced against M-appropriate size and weight, so I am not inspired by large/heavy 35mm Noctiluxes of any type. f/2 is the sweet spot for me. But it is a judgement call - I won't argue against those with other needs or desires.

35mm is such an important and difficult to design for focal length, that I think Leica needs at least two options in each maximum aperture category. You can't saturate us buyers with too many 35s!

19 minutes ago, adan said:

My current 75 is the C/V Nokton f/1.5 - weight of a Summarit (335g), speed of a Summilux.

In the past I have had the 75 1.5, but recently when re-buying my M system, I opted for the new 75 1.9 MC (290g).

Edited April 21, 2023 by hdmesa

[Rick in CO]

Is the proposed 35mm f2.8 Elmarit a revival of the f2.4 Summarit?  Likely optically different with close focus, but essentially a less expensive 35mm offering?

[cboy]

Bring back the 2.8 Elmar / Elmarit. Updated primes like the 50mm Elmar-m f2.8. Collapsible or non collapsible I don't mind as long they have it in all black (incl barrel).

Imo I think people are unsure what will Leica make next unlike other manufacturers which have a timeline/roadmap.

Perhaps a designated series i.e (S)tandard-m, (DR) Dual Range-m, (CR) Classic Reissued-m

[hdmesa]

1 minute ago, cboy said:

...Perhaps a designated series i.e (S)tandard-m, (DR) Dual Range-m, (CR) Classic Reissued-m

The did ask extensive questions about the current and long-standing lens naming conventions (Summilux, Summicron, etc.). I basically answered over several questions that it was confusing at first, but now I get it, and it's part of Leica's DNA at this point.

[hdmesa]

5 minutes ago, Rick in CO said:

Is the proposed 35mm f2.8 Elmarit a revival of the f2.4 Summarit?  Likely optically different with close focus, but essentially a less expensive 35mm offering?

The choices as proposed in the survey was 35 Cron with close focus vs Elmarit without close focus. I think the close focus as currently engineered would add too much cost for the Elmarit line.

[cboy]

Honestly most who get a M are looking for the rangefinder experience. Having to add accessories or live view to make the lens work properly is all good for value adding, but really it extends beyond the intended use case of a rangefinder. It's why the case for compact primes is strong for obvious reasons. Its not why I bought into the M system for close focus; there's better mirrorless systems for it.

Whether other manufacturer have already provided that need is debatable, but it'll still be nice for new compact Leica primes...much like their rebranded SL line. But hopefully not rebranded Zeiss or Cosina🤣

 

Edited April 21, 2023 by cboy

[sebben]

Please please make a compact line of Elmarits a possibility. Everyone who wants big heavy lenses is already well served. 

[sebben]

5 hours ago, hdmesa said:

So you do want tiny not just compact 

The CV 35 f/2 II had a lukewarm reception – rendering wide open is "meh".

That said, if Leica could make the next version of the 35 Cron as small as the 35 Cron pre-ASPH without any optical compromises, I'll be in line to buy one right behind you.

That’s what they should be capable of. 
 

Just need to see the work that the Chinese lens manufacturers are doing in terms of making fast compact cinema zooms and full frame anamorphics. 
 

[rramesh]

Were are the true innovative new lenses from Leica? Seems that all I’m seeing are small incremental improvements on existing lenses. 

Edited April 22, 2023 by rramesh

[hdmesa]

1 hour ago, sebben said:

That’s what they should be capable of...

You only get to pick 2 of 3, so if we're willing to pay for it, then I'm sure they can do it.

• Smallest size / lightest weight
• Highest image quality
• Reasonable cost (for Leica)

Would buyers pay over $6K USD for a 35 f/2 M lens that was the size of the pre-ASPH but retained or improved on the IQ of the current 35 Cron? Or would they be pricing themselves out of the price bracket Leica has typically associated with non-APO Summicrons?

[Alexander-HH]

The compact Elmarit-M 35 has my attention, I believe this would be an excellent addition to the lineup!

Edited April 22, 2023 by Alexander-HH

[sebben]

6 hours ago, hdmesa said:

You only get to pick 2 of 3, so if we're willing to pay for it, then I'm sure they can do it.

• Smallest size / lightest weight
• Highest image quality
• Reasonable cost (for Leica)

Would buyers pay over $6K USD for a 35 f/2 M lens that was the size of the pre-ASPH but retained or improved on the IQ of the current 35 Cron? Or would they be pricing themselves out of the price bracket Leica has typically associated with non-APO Summicrons?

Why on earth would it need to be 6K? Leica is overpricing themselves. The rest are catching up with ever improving optical performance and much much better prices. I don’t think the Leica myth will keep sustaining the company over the next 25 years on its own. 

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[Lee S]

15 hours ago, roelandinho said:

Easy answer for me: not interested in close focus (I only use the rangefinder or zone focusing). Also not interested in large or heavy lenses (an M should be fun to use and to carry all day, with nothing blocking the viewfinder). 
 

A 35mm Elmarit is interesting, but how will it compare to the C-Biogon? 

This, I use the 35mm Nokton Classic and C-Biogon and the camera goes everywhere with me and sits in a winter jacket pocket nicely.

Love my C-Biogon but wish it had Leica Haptics.

Be good to see a proper compact 35mm F2 or even an F2.8 APO. Must be much easier, cheaper and smaller to make that the current F2.0’s.