Leica Lens Survey Today – Hints at Possible New Lenses

[hdmesa]

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Should be a fun discussion. Nothing in the survey indicated the information in the survey was not for public consumption, so I hope it's ok to post.

My takeaways:

• Leica is still evaluating the value of close focus in regard to purchasing decision
• Leica is trying to balance size, compactness, price and maximum aperture

I rated close focus on other questions as being a high priority, but I know this doesn't matter to some of you, so I think it's good they are asking.

Not pictured in these screenshots because it's SL-related, but there were two choices between identical SL lenses, one manufactured in Germany and one in Japan – identical specs but the Japanese version was half the price. This choice was not shown for M lenses, so I wouldn't worry about that (for now). Personally I just think this was a way for them to judge how much value "Made in Germany" actually has versus it really being about moving to Japanese production.

Quote   Dear Leica owner, In a short survey we would like to learn more about what you value in lenses and how you use them. Your answers will help us to develop our lens portfolio so that you and other Leica customers benefit from an even more attractive choice of lenses. Participation is anonymous and will take about ten minutes of your time.  We appreciate your help and thank you in advance for your participation.

 

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Edited April 21 by hdmesa

[Pintpot]

'WEIGTH'  - Hath Leica got a lispth  😁😁😁

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[TheBestSLIsALeicaflex]

I have the first version of the Voigtlander 35/1.2.  Don't use it much because it's big and heavy, but the 1.2 gives a nice, creamy, unique look.  Have a feeling that might be a nice seller for Leica.

[roelandinho]

Easy answer for me: not interested in close focus (I only use the rangefinder or zone focusing). Also not interested in large or heavy lenses (an M should be fun to use and to carry all day, with nothing blocking the viewfinder). 
 

A 35mm Elmarit is interesting, but how will it compare to the C-Biogon? 

[Robert Blanko]

The question whether I would buy the 35 / 2.0 with MOD 0.4 was IMHO strategically not optimal. As an APO Summicron User with MOD below this I would of course not do this, even if I could save some weight. Thus, my “NO” for said question may lead to an entirely wrong interpretation.

[Lelmer]

Most important for me : high quality, weight and compactness.

Edited April 21 by Lelmer

[Jeff S]

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I not only don’t need to focus closer than 70cm; I don’t want it with M lenses.  It’s useless with my RF-only approach, adds needless mechanical,  ergonomic and design complexity, and probably adds to size and cost. I’d rather Leica pay more attention to quality control… aperture ring tension, mechanical reliability, etc… and keep size and prices in check.  I’ll use my SL system for close and precise focus, if needed; even my  SL 24-90 can focus closer than M lenses.  

Jeff

[RMF]

I was also an interesting and revealing survey about some of the question/challenges that Leica envisions down the road. It’s great that they collecting this data and asking for our user feedback  After taking the survey the one question I have is what is Leica’s North Star vision for the future with their lenses?

 

Edited April 21 by RMF

[Kwesi]

I welcome this move towards close focu lenses. I do wish though that they weren’t only tab focus designs as they seem to be heading in that direction now. 

[lct]

Interesting survey. Each and all M lenses are supposed to work fine in RF and LV mode in my humble opinion so OK for close focus but i miss the compact lenses of my youth, then no 35/2 lens should be bigger than a 35/2 v4 (again IMHO). BTW why a 35/2.8 lens? Because Leica is not capable to make a compact 35/2? Will be hard to compete with the ZM 35/2.8 anyway. Not sure it would sell but i'm no armchair CEO. 

[hdmesa]

20 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

I not only don’t need to focus closer than 70cm; I don’t want it with M lenses.  It’s useless with my RF-only approach, adds needless mechanical,  ergonomic and design complexity, and probably adds to size and cost. I’d rather Leica pay more attention to quality control… aperture ring tension, mechanical reliability, etc… and keep size and prices in check.  I’ll use my SL system for close and precise focus, if needed; even my  SL 24-90 can focus closer than M lenses.  

Jeff

There is no complexity to close focus with Voigtlander lenses at all. I think the Leica 35 APO with its crazy long focus throw and secondary focus system below 0.7m is what you're referring to. Perhaps a close-focus Cron could forgo the current close focus engineering and make a simple detent at 0.7m with more resistance than there is currently.

Since the use of M lenses on SL and other brand cameras helps drive M sales and keep the system alive, I think close focus is needed in the lineup.

[hdmesa]

5 minutes ago, lct said:

Interesting survey. Each and all M lenses are supposed to work fine in RF and LV mode in my humble opinion so OK for close focus but i miss the compact lenses of my youth, then no 35/2 lens should be bigger than a 35/2 v4 (again IMHO). BTW why a 35/2.8 lens? Because Leica is not capable to make a compact 35/2? Will be hard to compete with the ZM 35/2.8 anyway. Not sure it would sell but i'm no armchair CEO. 

I think they would best solve the compact 35 f/2 problem with a reissue of the 8-element. LLL has a remake, but I want one made by Leica.

[lct]

1 minute ago, hdmesa said:

I think they would best solve the compact 35 f/2 problem with a reissue of the 8-element. LLL has a remake, but I want one made by Leica.

Too much flare IMO. Leica is beaten hands down by Zeiss in this field. Such a trend should stop.

[hdmesa]

2 minutes ago, lct said:

Too much flare IMO. Leica is beaten hands down by Zeiss in this field. Such a trend should stop.

If it's in keeping with many (all?) Leica's reissues, it will have modern coatings and not flare like the original. Have you used the Summaron reissue? It has modern coatings and does not flare like the original.

[lct]

6 minutes ago, hdmesa said:

Have you used the Summaron reissue?

No but did you try the 35/1.4 reissue? Thanks no thanks i have plenty of legacy lenses already. I want compact modern lenses for a compact modern camera.

[hdmesa]

10 minutes ago, lct said:

No but did you try the 35/1.4 reissue? Thanks no thanks i have plenty of legacy lenses already. I want compact modern lenses for a compact modern camera.

How is the current 35 Cron not compact if the hood is not used? Personally, I hate the current cinema matte box-inspired hoods Leica uses. Glad they're moving to the pull-out hoods across the lineup.

Maybe you mean you want tiny modern lenses?

[Jeff S]

16 minutes ago, hdmesa said:

There is no complexity to close focus with Voigtlander lenses at all. I think the Leica 35 APO with its crazy long focus throw and secondary focus system below 0.7m is what you're referring to. Perhaps a close-focus Cron could forgo the current close focus engineering and make a simple detent at 0.7m with more resistance than there is currently.

Since the use of M lenses on SL and other brand cameras helps drive M sales and keep the system alive, I think close focus is needed in the lineup.

I prefer a simple hard stop, regardless. The 35 APO Summicron started a trend (recently 50 Summilux ASPH) that I don’t care for.  According to an interview with two Leica execs, the 35 APO was initially spec-ed by the sales/design side without close focus ability.  It was changed during the process only after the technical side suggested what was possible. For me, just because something can be done, doesn’t mean it should be done.  But I understand that Leica has other priorities and needs different from mine.  I wouldn’t be surprised, however, if the slow rollout of these new lenses (and some reliability issues) directly relate to this design/build complexity.  These are also issues that Leica must also consider. Until/if Leica builds an EVF-based M, I’ll continue to use the SL system with my SL lenses, and keep my M lenses on my M bodies… using RF only.

Jeff

[hdmesa]

Just now, Jeff S said:

I prefer a simple hard stop, regardless.

Understandable. Also no reason Leica couldn't produce two versions at the same time – simpler 0.7m and close focus editions.

 

Just now, Jeff S said:

The 35 APO Summicron started a trend (recently 50 Summilux ASPH) that I don’t care for.  According to an interview with two Leica execs, the 35 APO was initially spec-ed by the sales/design side without close focus ability.  It was changed during the process only after the technical side suggested what was possible. For me, just because something can be done, doesn’t mean it should be done...

Yes, that was my point in referencing Voigtlander. They offer 0.5m close focus on many M lenses with no added complexity. Leica creating the dual-range gearing that switches over at 0.7m was added complexity of their own making.

[lct]

1 minute ago, hdmesa said:

How is the current 35 Cron not compact if the hood is not used?

Too big for my taste. I find even my 35/2 asph v1 too big compared to my 35/2 v4 (pic). Even Cosina does much better, size-wise, with the CV 35/2 asph. Leica is not going to sell a single lens anymore if it keeps sleeping on its laurels.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[hdmesa]

Just now, lct said:

Too big for my taste. I find even my 35/2 asph v1 too big compared to my 35/2 v4 (pic). Even Cosina does much better, size-wise, with the CV 35/2 asph. Leica is not going to sell a single lens anymore if it keeps sleeping on its laurels.

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So you do want tiny not just compact 

The CV 35 f/2 II had a lukewarm reception – rendering wide open is "meh".

That said, if Leica could make the next version of the 35 Cron as small as the 35 Cron pre-ASPH without any optical compromises, I'll be in line to buy one right behind you.