Torn between my M6 TTL and a new 2022 M6

[abb-strack]

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Hoping someone can help put me at ease. I purchased a used M6 TTL w/.85 viewfinder in November 2022 from a well-known retailer here in LA, and have absolutely fallen in love with the camera. I settled for the used TTL after initially pre-ordering the newly released 2022 M6, and learning that Leica would not be filling any of those orders for quite some time. 

Between November and March I was able to shoot 19 rolls of film, and got intimately familiar with the camera. In late March after completing a roll of film, the spring in the take up spool popped out while rewinding, which necessitated taking in for repair. Fortunately I have a 1 year warranty with the retailer, but they did let me know I'd be waiting about 4 weeks for repair. I checked in yesterday after the 2nd full week, and their Leica specialist had not yet even picked up the camera from them, so I imagine 4 weeks might be a conservative estimate. 

Not more than 1 hour after checking on my used TTL did I get an email from the same retailer telling me the online order that I placed for the new M6 finally arrived. I know these are nice 'problems' to have, but I'm somewhat torn. I love the used camera, despite the bumpy zinc top plate. However not knowing anything about the history of the camera before I got it, and given this service issue, I'm a bit nervous that I could have a camera that might be in and out of need for repair on a consistent basis, and I don't like the idea of having to give up my camera for a month+ after paying a pretty penny for it. I imagine I'll probably take a small hit, but can potentially sell it back to the retailer, (or elsewhere) for near what I paid for it.

That said, the big shutter dial on the TTL and the .85 viewfinder appeal to me quite a bit...BUT I am also drawn to the idea of having an M6 that is brand new, complete with box, and all (the TTL only has the owners manual) and that I'm creating the history around.

As someone who is newer to using/owning a used Leica (coming from the a long history and present with Canon film and digital and Sony digital), should I be spooked by the spring mishap, or does that not necessarily mean there will continue to be issues with the camera?  I honestly doubt I will find a use case for the TTL function, but the dial and viewfinder are nice, and I've already started creating some history with the camera at this point. What would you do? 

(also realize none of this is remotely serious/important in the grand scheme and this post comes from a place of privilege, but figured a camera forum might be the best place to banter on about this). 

[earleygallery]

The meter in the M6TTL cannot be repaired if it should become faulty in the future. If the retailer is willing to refund you against the new M6 I would personally go for that, just for the fact it will be fully repairable for many years.

Just make sure the new M6 doesn't scratch film before you take it.

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[twogun]

I have a TTL and a classic version (similar small dial of the new 2022) -  I enjoy the more giant dial, and as much as I've heard about defective light meters on the M6 TTL, I have yet to see one that is defective. It's very rare.  If you are not too attached to the M6 TTL - you can get it CLA'd and sell it to make up for the 2022 M6 purchase.

Edited April 18, 2023 by twogun

[abb-strack]

35 minutes ago, twogun said:

I have a TTL and a classic version (similar small dial of the new 2022) -  I enjoy the more giant dial, and as much as I've heard about defective light meters on the M6 TTL, I have yet to see one that is defective. It's very rare.  If you are not too attached to the M6 TTL - you can get it CLA'd and sell it to make up for the 2022 M6 purchase.

Yes...the dial has been great and feels right. I've not used the classic with the smaller dial, but know that I'll have to adjust my hand to grip and change it if I am looking through the viewfinder. I'm sure I can get used to it, but will require some reorientation. 

The TTL does have some bubbling on the top plate and back door, but is otherwise cosmetically in very good shape. It's the not knowing what might be next for me. I'm thankful for the 1 year warranty, but that leaves only 7 more months of protection...which i wouldn't be too concerned about if there were no issues. 

That said, not sure if I should be more spooked by this or what I'm reading about the new M6 film scratching issues. 🤣

[madNbad]

A more important question is, did you buy the TTL because of the .85 finder? Should you choose to move to the new M6, you'll also be moving to the .72 finder. I have owned both the M6 Classic and the TTL and do like the larger shutter speed dial but in most cases, I tend to work at the same shutter speed and adjust the aperture so the dial size is not an issue. There is the consideration of meter failure. Most of the TTL failures involve the flash metering but still troublesome. The TTL flash system on the M6 was designed in the 1990's and technology has moved on since then. Leica has addressed the scratching issue and found it was a problem with the pressure plates If you decide to move to a new body, it shouldn't be an issue. Leica carried over the smaller dial from the earlier unmetered bodies where you had to take your eye away from the finder to set the shutter speed. There are plenty of methods for turning the smaller dial with the camera at eye level. Zinc oxidation is a cosmetic problem but still annoying. I had a TTL with a light spray of bubbles across the top plate. Still worked fine but traded it anyway. Good luck with your decision and welcome to the forum.

[abb-strack]

21 minutes ago, madNbad said:

A more important question is, did you buy the TTL because of the .85 finder? Should you choose to move to the new M6, you'll also be moving to the .72 finder. I have owned both the M6 Classic and the TTL and do like the larger shutter speed dial but in most cases, I tend to work at the same shutter speed and adjust the aperture so the dial size is not an issue. There is the consideration of meter failure. Most of the TTL failures involve the flash metering but still troublesome. The TTL flash system on the M6 was designed in the 1990's and technology has moved on since then. Leica has addressed the scratching issue and found it was a problem with the pressure plates If you decide to move to a new body, it shouldn't be an issue. Leica carried over the smaller dial from the earlier unmetered bodies where you had to take your eye away from the finder to set the shutter speed. There are plenty of methods for turning the smaller dial with the camera at eye level. Zinc oxidation is a cosmetic problem but still annoying. I had a TTL with a light spray of bubbles across the top plate. Still worked fine but traded it anyway. Good luck with your decision and welcome to the forum.

All good things to consider, for sure, thank you! (And thanks for the welcome).

Tbh when I initially purchased I wasn't as clued in to the 3 different finder sizes, but quickly came up to speed after purchasing it and learning about the camera. I did hold the new M6 at the Leica store in Los Angeles a few months back, and though it was brief, I did notice the finder to be super crisp, but I didn't do a side by side comparison of the difference with mine in hand.

As far as shooting it sounds like I'm the opposite of you, where in most reasonable/bright light situations I prefer to work in 'aperture priority' mode as much as possible, where I'm adjusting shutter first and using ND filters to allow me to open up a couple more stops (perhaps a holdover habit from so much digital).

I know plenty of folks have gotten on fine with the smaller dial, so I'm likely making a big deal out of nothing. It's also good to know the film scratching has been addressed. All along my goal was to purchase the new one after it was announced, but that was quickly thwarted by the delay in terms of the time it would take to actually get one in hand. Being that I had a near cross country road trip planned for the '22 holiday season and had been using an old Yashica FX-3 to reintroduce myself to film, I was itching to finally make good on the promise I made myself years ago to get an M6. 

Definitely feeling like my mind is starting to be made up here.

[dkCambridgeshire]

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Porridge and sardines for a few months and keep BOTH –  to experience both's attributes. The TTL could even $appreciate and prove to be a fundraiser – enabling purchase of an additional Leica lens(es) 

[abb-strack]

now this...

1 hour ago, dkCambridgeshire said:

Porridge and sardines for a few months and keep BOTH –  to experience both's attributes. The TTL could even $appreciate and prove to be a fundraiser – enabling purchase of an additional Leica lens(es) 

is an idea i've definitely considered. would have to figure out a way to square it with my better half though...😜

[grahamc]

Hello. I have a TTL and also an MP

MP has proven to be my first choice because the rangefinder patch is more contrasty - really makes focussing a breeze.  Whilst the TTL (and an M6 classic I also own) are fine, the MP is a noticeable improvement when I’m using it  

To me this is a very practical advantage i’d always recommend MP / 2022 M6 

the differing shutter speed dial types are a non issue because you get used to them via muscle memory 

Edited April 19, 2023 by grahamc

[Huss]

Not being funny here, but check to make sure the new M6 does not scratch film before you leave the shop.  Super simple - just run a roll of film through it i.e. shoot it until the end - rewind it, pull it out of its canister and examine the film very closely .  Over the entire length.  It is easy to see scratches on undeveloped film because it is opaque.

It is important to do this in the shop as you can immediately get a refund if it is a scratcher.  Do not fall for the 'we will send it in to get it repaired' line - as it will take months, and they may not even repair it on the first attempt.  Learn from my very discussed experience!

[ktmrider2]

I was going to say the same thing as Huss.  With the quality control issues with the new M6, I would hang onto your present camera.  If you still feel the urge for a new M6 in about a year, get one then as the film scratching issues should be cleared up by then.

[newtoleica]

For me the shutter issue is a no-go with the classic style M6. Not only is it small and fiddly it goes the other way. Big deal for me as I shoot aperture priority and use an M10P alongside. I have an M7 with a swapped black dot and MP style wind on lever. Love it. I'd keep the TTL. Has it been serviced recently? Is the dealer just fixing the spring or getting it fully serviced? No reason why a serviced M6 TTL shouldn't give years of service. I also think the metering board issue is overblown.

[Martin B]

Get your original M6 repaired under warranty which has been a proven and reliable tool for you. You will be without it for likely a few months, but I would simply be patient. It is a mechanical failure which likely can be fixed without further issues occurring after. 

Instead of buying a new M6 consider vesting this money elsewhere or save it. 

[abb-strack]

10 hours ago, Huss said:

Not being funny here, but check to make sure the new M6 does not scratch film before you leave the shop.  Super simple - just run a roll of film through it i.e. shoot it until the end - rewind it, pull it out of its canister and examine the film very closely .  Over the entire length.  It is easy to see scratches on undeveloped film because it is opaque.

It is important to do this in the shop as you can immediately get a refund if it is a scratcher.  Do not fall for the 'we will send it in to get it repaired' line - as it will take months, and they may not even repair it on the first attempt.  Learn from my very discussed experience!

Would definitely heed this advice if I decide to hold on to it. Its being shipped to me so dont have the option to do this onsite, unless I take it to the store to initially open it) but would for sure lean hard into their return policy in the event I see scratches. 

[abb-strack]

4 hours ago, newtoleica said:

For me the shutter issue is a no-go with the classic style M6. Not only is it small and fiddly it goes the other way. Big deal for me as I shoot aperture priority and use an M10P alongside. I have an M7 with a swapped black dot and MP style wind on lever. Love it. I'd keep the TTL. Has it been serviced recently? Is the dealer just fixing the spring or getting it fully serviced? No reason why a serviced M6 TTL shouldn't give years of service. I also think the metering board issue is overblown.

Good questions. Tbh I trusted the retailer as reputable so didn’t pose all the questions about recent servicing, CLA, etc when I originally purchased as I was pretty set on taking the dive. I suppose I can probe more with them on how they prep their Leica’s for resell now, after the fact, given I’ve now had this issue. I can definitely use that as an input into my decision. 

[abb-strack]

1 hour ago, Martin B said:

Get your original M6 repaired under warranty which has been a proven and reliable tool for you. You will be without it for likely a few months, but I would simply be patient. It is a mechanical failure which likely can be fixed without further issues occurring after. 

Instead of buying a new M6 consider vesting this money elsewhere or save it. 

In some ways I do question the reliable tool piece since I’ve had it for less than 6 months and have already found an issue that will leave me without it for at least 1-2 months. 

But your larger point about patience is well taken. Its tough when I feel I was just really mastering the learning curve and getting into a rhythm with it to have it become undone though. 

And yes, thinking about alternatives outlets for that cash is important too. While I like the Voigtlander Nokton 50 1.5 ii and the 35 1.4 I’m using, I could easily replace one of those with a 50 summicron with cash left over to save. 
 

This is a more difficult decision than I imagined it would be 🫤.

Edited April 19, 2023 by abb-strack

[abb-strack]

12 hours ago, grahamc said:

Hello. I have a TTL and also an MP

MP has proven to be my first choice because the rangefinder patch is more contrasty - really makes focussing a breeze.  Whilst the TTL (and an M6 classic I also own) are fine, the MP is a noticeable improvement when I’m using it  

To me this is a very practical advantage i’d always recommend MP / 2022 M6 

the differing shutter speed dial types are a non issue because you get used to them via muscle memory 

My limited exposure to the new M6 finder showed it to be a bit more contrasty than the TTL at least at first glance, but would need to do a real side by side to confirm. Can definitely see how that would be an advantage. What the finder size on the MP?

[Huss]

1 hour ago, abb-strack said:

Would definitely heed this advice if I decide to hold on to it. Its being shipped to me so dont have the option to do this onsite, unless I take it to the store to initially open it) but would for sure lean hard into their return policy in the event I see scratches. 

IF it is a scratcher - it may not be - demand a refund.  Do not accept a repair.  This is a brand new camera.

Now that mine is fixed, I love it.  But given the choice no way would I deal w that clown show at Leica NJ again.  

[madNbad]

53 minutes ago, abb-strack said:

My limited exposure to the new M6 finder showed it to be a bit more contrasty than the TTL at least at first glance, but would need to do a real side by side to confirm. Can definitely see how that would be an advantage. What the finder size on the MP?

When Leica introduced the MP a few changes were made to the viewfinder. A condenser that was removed as a cost saving measure that dates to the M4-2 was brought back. This helps reduce the finder flaring out, basically a white screen, in certain lighting situations. The other change was the move to multicoated rangefinder windows to improve contrast. 
Both of these modifications can be done on a M6 TTL.

Edited April 19, 2023 by madNbad

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[abb-strack]

appreciate all the replies everyone - thanks for indulging a newbie (lurker) on this. Definitely have a lot to consider. The new M6 arrives today (if I hadn't made clear, I pulled the trigger on the purchase just because I had to make a decision in the moment step out of the queue...but the major question now becomes do I keep it. 

At a minimum definitely taking away that it makes sense to pay a visit to the store and probe deeper on what servicing they do for used Leica's ahead of putting them up for sale.