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APO-Summicron 50mm with M11


Alvin Greis

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Hi guys!

I just making a first steps into a Leica world and looking for ultimate combination ‘one camera - one lens’ for now. And I feel myself more 50mm guy. But I have some doubts and kindly ask for your help. And also I want to say sorry in advance if my question is stupid. 🙂

I know Leica lenses are perfect pieces of engineering art, but I can’t clearly understand how the are perform with new digital cameras. And how they will perform with the future digital products.

So my question is 50mm APO (11141) is still great lens for the M11 and next camera will see from Leica? It’s quite big investment, but as I understood this lens is quite old. Have this lens enough reserve in term of sharpness and contrast to be used next decade?

 

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20 minutes ago, Steve Ash said:

I would  still consider it a young lens- especially in Leica terms. Sharpness wise I do not know any better 50mm lens. It might get challenged by the Noctilux 75.

I am sure you cannot go wrong with it.

Thanks Steve! I was hoping for such an answer )

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3 hours ago, Alvin Greis said:

Hi guys!

I just making a first steps into a Leica world and looking for ultimate combination ‘one camera - one lens’ for now. And I feel myself more 50mm guy. But I have some doubts and kindly ask for your help. And also I want to say sorry in advance if my question is stupid. 🙂

I know Leica lenses are perfect pieces of engineering art, but I can’t clearly understand how the are perform with new digital cameras. And how they will perform with the future digital products.

So my question is 50mm APO (11141) is still great lens for the M11 and next camera will see from Leica? It’s quite big investment, but as I understood this lens is quite old. Have this lens enough reserve in term of sharpness and contrast to be used next decade?

 

my entry ticket to leica M is exactly same: APO-Summicron 50mm and M11.

if money is not a subject, go with APO 35MM. Otherwise, APO-50mm is great.

 

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11 minutes ago, Warton said:

my entry ticket to leica M is exactly same: APO-Summicron 50mm and M11.

if money is not a subject, go with APO 35MM. Otherwise, APO-50mm is great.

 

35 APO is quite new, I remember. As I see here, difference between these to APO less than 300eur (50 a bit expensive than 35), but I prefer 50 to 35 on other full frames as a one lens. 

 

Edited by Alvin Greis
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4 hours ago, Alvin Greis said:

Have this lens enough reserve in term of sharpness and contrast to be used next decade?

Sure but it won't remain unchanged most probably. It should gain close focus the same way as the 50/1.4 asph, i guess, but Leica did not announce this move yet AFAIK. 

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26 minutes ago, Alvin Greis said:

35 APO is quite new, I remember. As I see here, difference between these to APO less than 300eur (50 a bit expensive than 35), but I prefer 50 to 35 on other full frames as a one lens. 

 

the price difference between these two APO is actually quite significant. I never pay the official quoted price on any brand new Leica lenses.

as you mentioned, APO-50 is "old" lens, you can get it brand new for a significant discount. In my case, it's about US$ 6000

but APO-35 is quite new, not only is it almost impossible to acquire one, but also it's virtually no discount. (the cheapest I can find is US$ 9000)

so it's way more 300 EUR difference.

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12 minutes ago, Warton said:

the price difference between these two APO is actually quite significant. I never pay the official quoted price on any brand new Leica lenses.

as you mentioned, APO-50 is "old" lens, you can get it brand new for a significant discount. In my case, it's about US$ 6000

but APO-35 is quite new, not only is it almost impossible to acquire one, but also it's virtually no discount. (the cheapest I can find is US$ 9000)

so it's way more 300 EUR difference.

Unfortunately in my case all of dealers asking for 50 APO 300eur more, than for 35.

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11 hours ago, SiggiGun said:

I recommande Apo35M. Simple but perfect

For me it’s very difficult question. In terms of mirrorless camera (now I’m shooting with Canon R3) I slightly prefer 50mm lens for outdoor (RF 50 F1.2), mostly because there is no so many people on the streets and I’m focusing on the object’s details more. But I like how accurately this lenses compress the perspective. But these are eternal doubts )

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1 hour ago, Alvin Greis said:

For me it’s very difficult question. In terms of mirrorless camera (now I’m shooting with Canon R3) I slightly prefer 50mm lens for outdoor (RF 50 F1.2)

im only a new M shooter myself. historically i liked using short teles on mirrorless bodies, but now that im the chump who has to focus the camera... i've grown to love the 35mm focal length (and the 75mm).

if you haven't shot RF before it might be worth dipping your toes via a used m10 or m240 and grab some inexpensive M mount lenses just to workout what you like and dont like. you wont really know until you start shooting 💁‍♂️  

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18 minutes ago, sometimesmaybe said:

im only a new M shooter myself. historically i liked using short teles on mirrorless bodies, but now that im the chump who has to focus the camera... i've grown to love the 35mm focal length (and the 75mm).

if you haven't shot RF before it might be worth dipping your toes via a used m10 or m240 and grab some inexpensive M mount lenses just to workout what you like and dont like. you wont really know until you start shooting 💁‍♂️  

Thanks! 
I have a bunch of RF lenses from 15mm to 200mm for different purposes and I found more pleasant to use 50mm in these sort of situations, when I want myself to slow down and shoot manually. It’s more about light and composition than documentary or dynamic.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Alvin Greis said:

I have a bunch of RF lenses from 15mm to 200mm for different purposes and I found more pleasant to use 50mm in these sort of situations, when I want myself to slow down and shoot manually.

in that case knock yourself out 😃 BTW i cant even imagine a 200mm RF glass... that thing must be a bazooka!

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26 minutes ago, sometimesmaybe said:

in that case knock yourself out 😃 BTW i cant even imagine a 200mm RF glass... that thing must be a bazooka!

It's 70-200 lens. 'Quite compact' in terms of RF: less than one cubic meter and a bit more a half of ton weight. Pretty compact, car size lens. 🙂

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5 minutes ago, Alvin Greis said:

It's 70-200 lens. 'Quite compact' in terms of RF: less than one cubic meter and a bit more a half of ton weight. Pretty compact, car size lens. 🙂

it just dawned on me... we might be having 2 different conversations 😅

RF = Range Finder (not Canon's RF mount)

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This looks like a lens question and probably lives better in the M lens section, where you can find sample images of different lenses.

50 and 35mm are the most comfortable lenses on the rangefinder and classic.

For people coming from other brands, sharpness is the only quality criteria, but as you learn about Leica the conversation expands to a look that a lens can produce.

You should consider all these terms when choosing a lens: bokeh, glow, CA correction, 3D pop, flat field, fall off, minimum focus distance, flare...

You can see that buying be sharpness APO lens is not the answer. For this reason, new lenses and old lenses are the magic of the M platform.

If you looking for a quick answer, Yes the 50 APO is the sharpest lens wide open. the Summilux ASPH lenses are designed to give you a glow effect at 1.4 (magical look) and maximize separation with a curved field. You stop the Summilux down to f4 and it has the same sharpness as the APO lens.

M Leica lenses are made with the philosophy of quality, performance, and compactness in mind. They will perform well for many years. the 50mm 1.4 ASPH has been around for almost 20 years and is still a favorite for many photographers.

 

To me, the Summicron 50 APO is a good lens if you want everything with lots of details, but if you go out in the street at F8, there is no point in spending so much money.

I would buy the Summilux! It gives you one more stop of light and separation when shooting at 1.4. Close to f4 and the images are almost the same as the APO lens.

As the only lens choice I would find 35mm more useful, and crop when needed. 

There are other offerings in APO lenses from other manufacturers that produce the same quality for a more affordable price.

 

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41 minutes ago, Photoworks said:

This looks like a lens question and probably lives better in the M lens section, where you can find sample images of different lenses.

50 and 35mm are the most comfortable lenses on the rangefinder and classic.

For people coming from other brands, sharpness is the only quality criteria, but as you learn about Leica the conversation expands to a look that a lens can produce.

You should consider all these terms when choosing a lens: bokeh, glow, CA correction, 3D pop, flat field, fall off, minimum focus distance, flare...

You can see that buying be sharpness APO lens is not the answer. For this reason, new lenses and old lenses are the magic of the M platform.

If you looking for a quick answer, Yes the 50 APO is the sharpest lens wide open. the Summilux ASPH lenses are designed to give you a glow effect at 1.4 (magical look) and maximize separation with a curved field. You stop the Summilux down to f4 and it has the same sharpness as the APO lens.

M Leica lenses are made with the philosophy of quality, performance, and compactness in mind. They will perform well for many years. the 50mm 1.4 ASPH has been around for almost 20 years and is still a favorite for many photographers.

 

To me, the Summicron 50 APO is a good lens if you want everything with lots of details, but if you go out in the street at F8, there is no point in spending so much money.

I would buy the Summilux! It gives you one more stop of light and separation when shooting at 1.4. Close to f4 and the images are almost the same as the APO lens.

As the only lens choice I would find 35mm more useful, and crop when needed. 

There are other offerings in APO lenses from other manufacturers that produce the same quality for a more affordable price.

 

You're absolutely right, it's not only a question of sharpness. I think every modern Leica lens is sharp enough. The reason was to get something ultimate not in terms of money, but in terms of engineering quality to cut off a possibility to say 'I could do it better with a better equipment'. If I've got the best the only problem I have is with my eyes and hands. Maybe it's a stupid logic, but what I have 😀

But if I'm starting to think about a 35-50 lens question'... I'm still not 100% sure. I have an obvious example (just technical aspects). Two printed images to compare with almost the same composition: one of them (btm) made with 50mm, other one (top) cropped from 35mm. And I love the realistic perspective of 50mm more. But the way to compose an image with a rangefinder is a bit different, as I see. That's why I have some doubts, but seems I just need to try (Unfortunately I don't have an ability to try the set but I could return it).

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Edited by Alvin Greis
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vor 2 Stunden schrieb Somchai:

Seems as though you like the compression of the 50mm lens better. 50mm for me is the king of all lenses. If you look at your picture there the difference is obvious when you look at the compression of the background. 

find a mint condition Leica APO 50mm. It’ll cost just under $5,000 or so.  

after that IMO the best companion is a 28mm lens. It’s like a 35 but gives you a little bit more. There’s nothing more frustrating than a 35mm lens when it’s not wide enough. 

Anyone who sells a 50apo in mint condition under 5.000$ doesn’t really know what he is selling.

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