Summarex 8.5cm impressions

[catacore]

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To conclude my "Summarex" story: today I met the lens (not the actual seller, but a friend of his) and got to evaluate the lens. I was told the glass has many "air bubbles", and I was explained "which is normal for its age". Then I have mounted it on my M240 using the Urth M39-M adapter. Focusing to infinity was just short of few mm, the images in the patch "almost" superimposed, but not quite. The subject at about 100m was sharp, but nothing beyond that point. Then I tried the infinity focusing with the K&F adapter, here the things were quite a bit off, focusing at infinity would yield the subject at about 10m sharp, nothing sharp beyond this distance.

Another thing to mention was the fact that both aperture and focusing rings were quite stiff, more so, when rotating the aperture ring for adjusting the aperture, the focusing ring was also rotating, albeit a smaller amount than the aperture ring. And vice-versa: when rotating the focusing ring I got also the aperture ring rotating. Never seen that before on any lens since those two rings were supposed to move independently one from another.

So, bottom line, I pass it.

Any thoughts?

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[Pyrogallol]

Sounds as if it needs a service. 1700€ is too much unless you can get it serviced included in the price.

My one focuses ok.

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Edited April 24, 2023 by Pyrogallol

[catacore]

1 hour ago, Pyrogallol said:

Sounds as if it needs a service. 1700€ is too much unless you can get it serviced included in the price.

My one focuses ok.

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Yes, I guess it needs a service, but I'm not prepared for this.

Now, after looking at the pictures on my computer screen, I have to admit that those shot using the Urth adapter look acceptably sharp on the objest I was focusing on (a light pole at about 4-500m) and beyond that point (the hills and trees behind). That might be due to the DOF, since I was shooting at f/8 or so. Or it might be a case of back focusing, as per @Al Brown post, when the images in the focusing patch are not overlapping 100%, but the subject is in focus. 

Now regarding the "alignment", as I see also in your picture, the DOF scale was not "centered" with regards to the camera body, neither was the hole for the tripod plate (the plate was missing). With one of the adapters the hole was on one side of the camera body (say, left) and with the other was on the opposite side (right, when looking from the camera's bottom plate).

Then, even more, all the evaluation was done on a hurry, since the guy had to go for a meeting, outside was just starting to rain.....but sure enough, even if the lens was focusing to infinity, the lens' two rings (aperture and focusing) were way too stiff. I am glad I had enough good reasons to pass it, otherwise I might have bought it, then regreted my decision.

I might, eventually, drop an email to Leica about a CLA for it (in case they offer this service). And a mount change.

Edited April 24, 2023 by catacore

[sometimesmaybe]

On 4/11/2023 at 6:25 AM, Al Brown said:

This veteran Bokeh Monster is full of character, glowy with a sharper center and softer edges wide open and in a way reminiscent of ultra fast Chinese tele lenses (75, 90) of today at fastetst speeds

i was just thinking the same thing, it reminds me of my 7A 75mm f1.25 - it has a beautify rendering but it was just too heavy for me (600g). @catacore what a bummer re your potential Summarex... i suppose you wouldn't bother with using an analogue until you get yourself an actual Summarex

[Pyrogallol]

10 hours ago, catacore said:

Yes, I guess it needs a service, but I'm not prepared for this.

Now, after looking at the pictures on my computer screen, I have to admit that those shot using the Urth adapter look acceptably sharp on the objest I was focusing on (a light pole at about 4-500m) and beyond that point (the hills and trees behind). That might be due to the DOF, since I was shooting at f/8 or so. Or it might be a case of back focusing, as per @Al Brown post, when the images in the focusing patch are not overlapping 100%, but the subject is in focus. 

Now regarding the "alignment", as I see also in your picture, the DOF scale was not "centered" with regards to the camera body, neither was the hole for the tripod plate (the plate was missing). With one of the adapters the hole was on one side of the camera body (say, left) and with the other was on the opposite side (right, when looking from the camera's bottom plate).

Then, even more, all the evaluation was done on a hurry, since the guy had to go for a meeting, outside was just starting to rain.....but sure enough, even if the lens was focusing to infinity, the lens' two rings (aperture and focusing) were way too stiff. I am glad I had enough good reasons to pass it, otherwise I might have bought it, then regreted my decision.

I might, eventually, drop an email to Leica about a CLA for it (in case they offer this service). And a mount change.

Regarding alignment of the scales engraved on the lens. Remember that it is intended to be offset to the left when looking down on the camera, that is so that the view is not blocked when you have a finder in the accessory shoe. Though the offset is not really necessary on the summarex as the scales are far enough away from the camera body not to be blocked by anything in the accessory shoe. The tripod mount though should be in the centre.

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Edited April 25, 2023 by Pyrogallol

[catacore]

14 hours ago, sometimesmaybe said:

.. i suppose you wouldn't bother with using an analogue until you get yourself an actual Summarex

Not quite sure what you meant here, but the fact is that I never wanted a Summarex since I never knew such a thing exists. I was looking to buy a small and lightweight 90mm in M-mount (while also keeping my Sigma AF lens for Sony) and while I was still deciding which compromise to admit between the many options available, I came to see this Rex advertised on olx. Then I start researching a bit on the 'net and found beautiful (rendered) images. So I was (sort of) sold for it. It is quite the opposite of what I was looking for in a 90mm FL, being big, heavy and fast. So, basically, at this point, I am not looking for another Summarex, but in case I will ever find one in good condition and for a good price, as least I know what it is.

Now, back to my story, today I was still exchanging few messages with the guy I met yesterday (which, AFAIK is not the lens' owner, but he's a Leica user). He told me he checked the lens on a LTM camera and it was able to focus to infinity. Then he told me he opted to use a thick grease when he greased the lens mechanisms (?!) and this is the reason the aperture and focusing rings are so stiff. Still, I can't see why they would rotate simultaneously. So yes, I am really glad I passed it. And he told me he kept the lens for himself (!). Well, it is what it is... but to me it looks fishy.

[sometimesmaybe]

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10 hours ago, catacore said:

Not quite sure what you meant here

sorry for the confusion. i was making a tangential comment that in the absence of getting your hands on a Summarex, i assumed you wouldn't be interested in getting/using something that renders and handles like a Summarex. 

if you could be tempted, i was specifically thinking of the 7A 75mm f1.25, the DOF is basically the same given the 7A is half a stop or so faster. this lens really glows wide open (too much for my tastes and i prefer to shoot it at f2.8) 

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[catacore]

Excellent pictures and very nice lens' "rendering" (I know some people hate this word). My thought was to "fill the gap" between 50mm and 135mm, and the 75mm would be a bit too close to the 50mm. Then, I'm not that much into the portrait photography, to be honest.

For a wider context of my thinking now, I still own a Sony A7C camera and a Sigma 90mm f2.8 for it. And since I am not quite sure (actually less and less so) I am going to stick with the M240 (meaning rangefinder cameras in general), I won't want to buy more M-mount lenses, even if I can use those on my A7C.  

[sometimesmaybe]

5 hours ago, catacore said:

Excellent pictures and very nice lens' "rendering" (I know some people hate this word). My thought was to "fill the gap" between 50mm and 135mm, and the 75mm would be a bit too close to the 50mm. Then, I'm not that much into the portrait photography, to be honest.

For a wider context of my thinking now, I still own a Sony A7C camera and a Sigma 90mm f2.8 for it. And since I am not quite sure (actually less and less so) I am going to stick with the M240 (meaning rangefinder cameras in general), I won't want to buy more M-mount lenses, even if I can use those on my A7C.  

i reckon your thinking about holding off is exceptionally sound. no point getting a 50mm and 75mm combo

i'll just add, shooting 90mm with Sony AF vs manual focusing a 85mm/90mm on the m240 are 2 very different propositions. when i got my m246 last year, i thought i'd be able to use 90mm without issue, but soon i realised i was just rubbish at manual focusing... 75mm was just easier to use and matched well with my 35mm

 

[catacore]

I am quite new to rangefinder focusing, but I manage, quite constantly, to focus my Tele-Elmar-M 135/4 correctly. Even without the 1.4x magnifier, which I aquired later on and I am using now.

BTW, I think a 35mm/75mm is a very nice combo. To my surprise, I found recently the 35mm and 50mm FL so different that it is worth to own both those FL. Love my CV 35/1.2 v3 and my LLL SPII 50/2 lenses.

Edited April 26, 2023 by catacore

[sometimesmaybe]

6 hours ago, catacore said:

Love my CV 35/1.2 v3 and my LLL SPII 50/2 lenses

what a combo. i have the CV 35mm f1.2 v3 (also glowie at between 0.5m and 1m) and ive been eyeing off the LLL 50mm Cooke thingy.

the triplet lens layout gives a very unique rendering, but i'd love to see it in a 35mm - only because i almost never shoot with a 50mm   

 

[catacore]

BTW , I have ordered the back issues of Leica Magazine (Leica Fotografie International) - Full Year Collection 2011 only because one of the magazines was featuring an article about Summarex. Well, now, at least, I will have few LFI magazines.....

[Pyrogallol]

Two pictures from last week using my Summarex wide open on a Reid 3 with Rollei 400 Infrared film. Scans of darkroom prints,

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[j453]

85 Summarex is a great lens - character & neutral.

It is a character lens at 1.5, a lot of glow but it is sharp.

The Rex changes already at 2.0 and is sharp and neutral looking at 2.8.

 

I've used it on my IIIg, M6 for analog.

Digital on M11, M10 Monochrome and SL2.

 

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Leica IIIg with Summarex-M39 1,5/85mm shot on ADOX CMS20 PRO II

(Negative to Digital: M10-Monochrome with Elmar-M39 3,5/50mm & BELUN Hilfsgerät 1:1)

 

 

 

 

[j453]

Leica M10-Monochrome with Summarex-M39 1,5/85mm

Shot at Aperture 1.5

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[j453]

Leica M10-Monochrome with Summarex-M39 1,5/85mm

Shot at Aperture 2.8

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[mark harverson]

Has anyone shot this lens on the m8? Do you have any photos we can see