ISO performance on SL2-s vs SL2

[LocalHero1953]

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4 hours ago, SrMi said:

Yes, false colors, aliasing, moire.

Yes, it is removable in post but you lose details. Classic test example is the Siemens chart.

Fair enough, though I have to say that if I've lost any details by removing moiré, they have not detracted from my images.
Obviously YMMV.

[Aram Langhans]

Interesting discussion.  I am glad I stumbled upon it.  I my opinion, Leica could solve many if its issues if it would use the latest Sony BSI sensors.  I did not want the weight of the SL system so I opted for the Q2 which I love most everything about.  That is until you crank the ISO up above 800.  Then it falls way behind my Nikon Z7ii.  I use the Q2 about half the time.  I was using it for 80% of my shots when I had the Nikon D750.  At times you just need more reach or a wider angle than the Q2 can offer.  And the lens is amazing.

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[jaapv]

3 hours ago, Aram Langhans said:

Leica could solve many if its issues if it would use the latest Sony BSI sensors.

Leica has no problem using Sony sensors, in fact the Digilux2 and APS cameras used Sony, - the very fact that they don't shows that it might be problematic  for their full-frame cameras. Leica always uses special microlenses to accommodate legacy lenses, for instance. 

[SrMi]

A comparison between SL2 (first) vs. SL2-S (second) at ISO 12500 after passing the raws through DxO's PureRAW 3 (LrC's 200% view after resizing to 24MP). Note that high-resolution files have more efficient NR.

 

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Edited April 5, 2023 by SrMi

[Virob]

Wasn’t expecting those results.  Very happy with my SL2.

[helged]

5 hours ago, SrMi said:

A comparison between SL2 (first) vs. SL2-S (second) at ISO 12500 after passing the raws through DxO's PureRAW 3 (LrC's 200% view after resizing to 24MP). Note that high-resolution files have more efficient NR.

 

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Looks like DxO's PureRAW 3 is Worth a try..., thanks! 

[huwm]

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All well and good but if you hate sitting in front of a screen as much as I do then you use the instrument that facilitates that aim, in this instance the SL2S

[Bikie John]

I already posted this in the "SL2-S Images" thread - rather than cross-post here it is again. Steel guitar blues in authentically terrible lighting, SL2-S at ISO 12,500, quite heavy tonal bending in Lightroom and a little noise reduction in Topaz (not much, just to slightly reduce speckles on the back wall), Sigma 105/2.8 macro:

 

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I am pretty pleased with this!

John

 

Edited April 5, 2023 by Bikie John

[Chaemono]

SL2 has more DR at high ISO than SL2-S, but SL2-S has more exposure latitude at high ISO than SL2. M11 sensor in SL3 should combine high ISO DR of SL2 with exposure latitude of SL2-S. There will not be a need for an SL3-S, I think. Some M11 ISO 3200/6400 files that I found online look amazing and pushed shadows noise is not an issue. Come to think of it, Leica will never put IBIS in M body so users will have to buy both, M and SL. 

Edited April 5, 2023 by Chaemono

[SrMi]

 

53 minutes ago, Chaemono said:

SL2 has more DR at high ISO than SL2-S

SL2's images a much noisier at high ISO than SL2-S images. Therefore, SL2-S has more DR.

53 minutes ago, Chaemono said:

SL2-S has more exposure latitude at high ISO than SL2

I assume that by exposure latitude, you mean the lifting of shadows. I have not noticed better highlighter recovery with SL2-S.

53 minutes ago, Chaemono said:

Leica will never put IBIS in M body

Leica indicated they could put IBIS in M's body if they removed the mechanical shutter.

Edited April 5, 2023 by SrMi

[davidmknoble]

I still believe it depends on the work you do.  As a landscape photographer, I was not able to get the range like the SL2-S and the S3.  The SL2 kept blowing the whites too quickly or the shadows had too much noise - so I believe high dynamic range isn't as good, but only if you need the range.

[Chaemono]

vor 15 Stunden schrieb SrMi:

 

SL2's images a much noisier at high ISO than SL2-S images. Therefore, SL2-S has more DR.

…

That’s what I used to think but with AI, depending on the image, this is turned on its head. It may be better to capture a noisier but more detailed image and process the file in either Topaz DeNoise AI or DXO‘s PureRAW. The result could be more DR for the higher MP sensor. https://www.thewanderinglensman.com/2021/04/topaz-had-sensor-format-argument-on.html?m=1

[huwm]

and more time at the desk?

 

[Sohail]

I've yet to see software that can denoise skin tones in a way that feels organic -- at least to my liking. It always looks a little off. But I'm happy to be persuaded otherwise if someone has come up with interesting results.

[jaapv]

 Not yet, I agree, although DXO gets good reviews for this. But it will come. 

[Chaemono]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb huwm:

and more time at the desk?

 

For less time at the desk, one can use the S3 as a backup. 

[cj3209]

1 hour ago, Chaemono said:

For less time at the desk, one can use the S3 as a backup. 

"...S3 as a backup."   Lol, a $20k backup...

[SrMi]

5 hours ago, Chaemono said:

That’s what I used to think but with AI, depending on the image, this is turned on its head. It may be better to capture a noisier but more detailed image and process the file in either Topaz DeNoise AI or DXO‘s PureRAW. The result could be more DR for the higher MP sensor. https://www.thewanderinglensman.com/2021/04/topaz-had-sensor-format-argument-on.html?m=1

I see. I was talking about the camera's DR/noise, not what can be accomplished with the camera's output.

[SrMi]

5 hours ago, huwm said:

and more time at the desk?

 

How much more? At import, you could just batch NR all your images.

I am willing to spend hours on images that I care about, I have no qualms about spending less than a minute on AI NR.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[hdmesa]

• If you don't need the higher resolution of the SL2, the SL2-S is a no-brainer.
• If you need high resolution, why would you want an SL2-S?
• If you need both resolution and the highest-quality ISO, why not wait for the SL3?

I don't like introducing AI noise reduction to the equation since it can be used on either camera to further improve the output from each. I also don't like the overly-smooth and blended "oil paint quality" of AI noise smoothing.

To me, the quality of noise is more important to me than the quantity of noise. To that end, I do not like the look of the noise from high ISO images from the SL2 and Q2 (at or above 6400 in low light) – even converting them to black and white does not fully satisfy me. The noise from the SL2-S at high ISOs is very filmic and pleasing to me.

Also when looking at samples people provide, don't confuse high ISO performance in good light versus high ISO performance in very low light.