The Pixii rangefinder camera is here — what do you want to know about it?

[Chris W]

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29 minutes ago, jaapv said:

Looking at eBay this is at the lower end for M240 P. Asking prices. Most are at 3800. 

A good local UK dealer sold one for £2400 - 2,800 euro $3000 US

https://www.tli-processing.com/product-page/leica-m-typ-240

[pop]

1 hour ago, Chris W said:

Until the company stop trading. This exactly happened to me with the Epson RD-1s.

As has happened to people with Leica and their R series.

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[Chris W]

Sure, neither the M8 or M9 are supported any more.

The Leica R mount cameras ran from 1964 to 2009. Most mechanical film cameras are still usable today, except for the ones with specialist electronics (Hassleblad X Pan for example).

That's the downside with digital.

[pop]

12 minutes ago, Chris W said:

Sure, neither the M8 or M9 are supported any more.

The Leica R mount cameras ran from 1964 to 2009. Most mechanical film cameras are still usable today, except for the ones with specialist electronics (Hassleblad X Pan for example).

That's the downside with digital.

That discussion is a bit awkward without any data to back it. I own several mechanical film cameras that are neither usable nor fixable, and I have little doubt that there are still Epson R-D1 cameras out there that work perfectly well. My last SLR was a film cameras blessed with three computers, and it lasted more than a quarter century and it was still in working condition when I gave it away.

It's mainly a myth that digital products are short lived. It's also a myth that mechanical things keep for very long times. Many do, many don't.

[Chris W]

11 minutes ago, pop said:

 

It's mainly a myth that digital products are short lived. It's also a myth that mechanical things keep for very long times. Many do, many don't.

I didn't start that debate. The claim was made Pixii will roll out new updates over years to come. I just pointed out they are small, selling an expensive, niche camera in a rather financially depressed climate and even a large corp like Epson didn't support their crop sensor M mount camera for very long.

Each person can make their own risk assessment. I'd love to buy the RD-1s again, but it's the same price as a recent Fuji digital and if the proprietary electronics in the Epson fail I have $1800 invested in a brick.

[Viv]

3 minutes ago, Chris W said:

I didn't start that debate. The claim was made Pixii will roll out new updates over years to come. I just pointed out they are small, selling an expensive, niche camera in a rather financially depressed climate and even a large corp like Epson didn't support their crop sensor M mount camera for very long.

Each person can make their own risk assessment. I'd love to buy the RD-1s again, but it's the same price as a recent Fuji digital and if the proprietary electronics in the Epson fail I have $1800 invested in a brick.

I  also would be concerned about the future of a small company with a single expensive niche product.

If the Pixii was made by Zeiss or Nikon I would buy it.

[oldwino]

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3 hours ago, Viv said:

I  also would be concerned about the future of a small company with a single expensive niche product.

If the Pixii was made by Zeiss or Nikon I would buy it.

Zeiss doesn't have the best track record with cameras lately...

[jaapv]

4 hours ago, Chris W said:

Sure, neither the M8 or M9 are supported any more.

The Leica R mount cameras ran from 1964 to 2009. Most mechanical film cameras are still usable today, except for the ones with specialist electronics (Hassleblad X Pan for example).

That's the downside with digital.

M8 and M9 are still supported by Leica depending on the availability of parts. They replaced the LCD on my M9 Monochrom a year ago. 

[Chris W]

9 minutes ago, jaapv said:

M8 and M9 are still supported by Leica depending on the availability of parts. They replaced the LCD on my M9 Monochrom a year ago. 

There are shutter and sensor issues, no longer repairable.

The M8 and M9 forums are full of people worried about the longevity of their camera. Again, it would be fine if they were sub $1000 cameras, but they are still priced between $1500 and $2000 (depending on condition and rarity).

[jaapv]

That is correct although I think the M9 shutter is still replaceable. But that is something different from “not supported”. It is “supported as far as possible” The same with the support disaster of the DMR. Ten years after production end, long after they had to give up on the electronics, Leica dug up parts -the very last ones- to refurbish mine.  Free of charge too. 
Another thing: With old digital cameras, repair is often not possible because the repair costs more than the value of the camera. A shutter repair on an M8 can easily exceed 1000 Euro. In that case simply buy another one. BTW mostly the Teflon “fingers” are stuck. Leica can fix that at minimal cost. 

[Simone_DF]

On 3/21/2023 at 10:55 AM, Chris W said:

Sure, neither the M8 or M9 are supported any more.

The Leica R mount cameras ran from 1964 to 2009. Most mechanical film cameras are still usable today, except for the ones with specialist electronics (Hassleblad X Pan for example).

That's the downside with digital.

Leica also dropped their APS-C line recently. The TL and CL lines are no more.

[Franklin Saint]

On 3/19/2023 at 4:25 AM, Chris W said:

Because people claim they are the same price.

I learned photography on an M6. I have always enjoyed the rangefinder experience.

I have the M240 because it is the cheapest 'newer' digital M I can afford. I probably would have preferred an M262 as I don't use video either, but a bargain priced M240 came up so I grabbed it.

The M10 is quite a bit more expensive. I never use LV or the EVF. I am NOT a rangefinder purist, it's just a way I like to shoot. My other camera is a Sigma FP and recently I've owned a Leica Q and SL. 

If you bought a camera MAINLY because it is a full frame digital and also a Rangefinder, I don't think you can be accused of being 'a purist'.

Apologies - purist isn't meant as a pejorative or a reason for praise in this case. 

I think we moved the goalpost a little when comparing the Pixxi to the M240. When I pointed out the deficiencies of the M240's EVF and live view functionality (by modern standards), they somehow became inconsequential when discussing the viability of the camera in 2023 - under the reasoning that they were immaterial to rangefinder shooting.

Before someone comes along to sing the praises of the 240, please save your energy; I gladly concede that it is a fine tool. That said, as a digital camera, it is beginning to show its age at a decade old. The Pixii is a snappier shooting experience, in my own humble opinion.

The M-D (Typ 262) feels like a better comparison as neither it nor the Pixii has a backscreen that one has to be overly obsessed with scratching, breaking, or constantly smudging. Coming from the film world, this makes sense as I don't require a miniature television to be mounted to the back of my camera - even in the face of failing vision.

Posturing and simping for brands aside, the Pixii represents a paradigm shift that should be taken seriously (if not the camera itself). Who among us would not wish to end the tedious resale mambo that inevitably happens when Leica ships its next in a line of cameras designed for planned obsolescence. 

As many of us are quick to point out, the body of a Leica hasn't changed materially in a century. Why not create an offshoot of the Leica production pipeline that allows older models to receive discreet hardware updates? God forbid we should receive enhanced product before arthritis, and astigmatism set in.

As it stands today, the only body-related upgrade a Pixii would need is to support more frame lines.
 

Edited March 22, 2023 by Franklin Saint

[Simone_DF]

On 3/22/2023 at 5:16 PM, Franklin Saint said:

As many of us are quick to point out, the body of a Leica hasn't changed materially in a century. Why not create an offshoot of the Leica production pipeline that allows older models to receive discreet hardware updates?

Because they would lose a constant source of revenue. 

Pixii can do it because their bodies are cheaper compared to a current M11, designed from the very beginning to be more module-oriented and because they are the underdog and they need to convince Leica customers to switch brand. If you think about it, some people on this forum prefer to buy a 10 years old camera with all its limitations rather than a brand new model for approximately the same price, sometimes for good reasons, like Chris above prefers not to buy an additional lens to get a 35mm equivalent, which is perfectly valid, sometimes because they are pretty much Leica sycophants and would buy even a turd if it had a red dot sticker on it, and a whole range of people in between these two situations, so the challenge for Pixii is real. 

[Chris W]

It's because lenses are expensive and since all my M mount bodies are full frame I have limited use for a 21mm or 24mm lens.

[M2Pete]

On 3/16/2023 at 7:29 PM, Mattias Burling said:

Been shooting with it for over a year now. Its a fun camera.

I was interested in this camera. Your videos prompted me to purchase it. Supply chain and consumer demand is slowing its delivery but mine should be here in a week or two. Cannot wait to get out there and shoot with it!

[Squad]

On 3/16/2023 at 10:29 AM, Mattias Burling said:

Been shooting with it for over a year now. Its a fun camera.

…says a Pixii brand ambassador.

Thanks for nothing 🤣

At least you did your job 😉

[Squad]

On 3/21/2023 at 12:13 PM, pop said:

It's mainly a myth that digital products are short lived. It's also a myth that mechanical things keep for very long times. Many do, many don't.

A myth, or let’s say a correlation. Product cycles at all have shortened, and are still on their way to be optimized for profits, i. e. sell more in a shorter time span. Business as usual. In the same time digital has in many cases replaced mechanical. This is your correlation.

In an alternative universe it also wouldn’t happen that mechanical devices would have shorter life spans on shelves, as digital technology was, and still is, the enabler for much shorter product cycles.

In the end this has nothing to do with the quality and life span of the product itself. Mechanical, or digital, there are bad and good ones.

And it has also nothing to do with most people’s desire to experience something new (ownership of new things is part of it). YOLO, and sh*t.

So while I applaud Pixii for trying to be upgradeable, I also don’t think this is the right approach. Just introduce proper product recycling processes, be a modern company, also try to delve more into the lifestyle market, introduce more configurations. All hard things to do. That’s the reason I think it’s great to have Pixii around. But at the same time they are (still) nothing for me. Too prototypic for my taste.

[Viv]

1 hour ago, Squad said:

…says a Pixii brand ambassador.

Thanks for nothing 🤣

At least you did your job 😉

Once a smartass, always a smartass.

[Chris W]

Pixii certainly brings out a lot of emotions.

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[Squad]

On 4/28/2023 at 1:52 PM, Viv said:

Once a smartass, always a smartass.

Not only smart, but also sexy. Hater’s gonna hate. Don’t be jealous.

So what exactly did you contribute to the discussion regarding the Pixii camera?