delander † Posted November 4, 2007 Share #41 Posted November 4, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Well thats it then. It must be different shielding effects of the black and silver bodies with regard to cosmic rays! Or it could be the Russians, just waiting to release the Zorki 8, with all the fixes in place! Jeff Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 4, 2007 Posted November 4, 2007 Hi delander †, Take a look here Rant on Firmware Updates. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
erl Posted November 4, 2007 Share #42 Posted November 4, 2007 Clearly, we all use our cameras differently, for different purposes, which is why we should research the gear before dumping a bundle of dollars down for it. I did, and I got pretty much what expected. I enjoy the prospect of 'new' software and other upgrades as much as the next guy and always look out for them. But I had two shoots today (or was it three?) and during all of them I gave not a seconds thought to upgrades, AWB's (what's that), or any other techy stuff. I know exactly how my camera performs "as is" and that fine for what I shoot because I chose the tool to suit my purpose, with knowledge. Consequence - I'm not dissapointed. I know it's not perfect, but show me a camera that is, and I've had (got) a few. So don't lay all the blame at Leica's feet. Look at your own shoes as well. Have they trod deliberately and wisely? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtZ Posted November 4, 2007 Share #43 Posted November 4, 2007 Actually I have black venetian blinds on the black camera and red on the silver. Will that info help them solve the problem? LOL Jeff Jeff, I was in Solms last Thursday and Friday. They coded my TE 28-35-50 and they fixed back/front focus issues with my lenses in both bodies. As one of them has never shown venetian blind store effect and mad scroll, I asked the technician why this happens only in one body. I asked him if it wasn't a hardware problem more than a firmware problem (I have always suspected this). He couldn't answer. He said "Leica is working on that". I asked also about the new firmware release. He said that AWB and HI ISO noise will be improved and the Summarits codes will be added. He couldn't tell me about SDHC support either. I don't expect much from the next FW version comming this month. I'm very disappointed with the M8. I bought a second body in September as a backup body because I think you cannot rely only in just one (M8) body. Next week, I'm going to NY. I will buy an MP or M7 (I haven't decide yet) and I'll go back to film with Leica rangefinders to be able to use the 5 new Leica lenses plus 1 second hand I bought since June 2007. I won't buy any new lens from Leica. I have ordered 3 more lenses (CV) at CamaraQuest. They should be delivered in NY while I'm there. And for digital... I'll go back to Canon. I'm very happy with my Canon gear. . Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
delander † Posted November 4, 2007 Share #44 Posted November 4, 2007 So don't lay all the blame at Leica's feet. Look at your own shoes as well. Have they trod deliberately and wisely? Sorry I dont buy that. I blame Leica completely. Venetian blinds, jumping scroll wheels nothing to do with me at all or any other customer. Come on these are basic operational problems. Because they are so obvious and have not been resolved I have the hunch that they cant be. Jeff Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
guywalder Posted November 4, 2007 Share #45 Posted November 4, 2007 Personally, I am happy to work only in 1/2 stops. I find that the 1/6 stop maximum difference between the 1/3-increment stops and the 1/2-increment stops would never make enough of a real difference to my photos, because the screen on the back and the histogram cannot show it that accurately anyway. I imagine that Leica used 1/3-stops for the exposure compensation only because this is traditional. I would prefer 1/2-stops there too. Carsten, 1/2 stops are fine most of the time, but just sometimes they are too much, which is why I would be happy for 1/3rd via the (not so convenient) ex-compensation menu. What I find so daft is that the capability is Already in the camera, but not in the mode I (and I suspect most people) use when exposure accuracy is really important. Secondly the woefully small histogram is another mistake! not a reason to justify the first mistake.. My comparison, as always is my D2X, with which I get a full screen histogram, which shows significant differences 1/3rd of a stop to the next (the D3 histogram appears to be a step in the wrong direction ) At risk of going on and on, the D2X also let ME choose 1/3rd, or 1/2 or full stop steps...... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan States Posted November 4, 2007 Share #46 Posted November 4, 2007 Indeed I am. It's the best camera I've ever owned. And that would be the case even if the firmware was never updated. Likewise. By the way, if you don't WANT the venetian blindes and the wacky scrolling you can avoid it simply. 1. Use the up/down button to scroll through the menus, not the wheel. This has eliminated the scrolling error in my M8 2. Give your camera a moment to restart before shooting or for gods sake turn off image review. If you really want the M experience constantly rethinking your exposures aint it! Turn off image review and do it old school! With the BRAIN! If you don't like the white balance you should shoot RAW. I have a Nikon D200 and while it is much better in this respect I ALWAYS fine tune white balance from that camera, so what's the difference. If you are not willing to take time on individual images this is definitely not the camera for you. It is for people who enjoy both the creation and production ends of advanced photography. For those people it can create amazing results. If you need something that makes good pictures that you can pick up from Wallmart it WILL disapoint. I really do feel bad for those folks who have had mechanical failures, and THAT is something Leica needed to work out earlier. It seems to have died down with the later batches. (knock wood). If you just can't get decent images from your M8 than you need to improve your CRAFT, not your camera. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted November 4, 2007 Share #47 Posted November 4, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) If you just can't get decent images from your M8 than you need to improve your CRAFT, not your camera. This makes perfect sense. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
larry Posted November 4, 2007 Share #48 Posted November 4, 2007 I have no problem with M8 owners who are dissatisfied and want to complain -- although my experience with the camera has been very positive. However, I do have a problem with the self-proclaimed "experts" who don't own or use the camera, yet feel compelled to stop by and remind us about the overpriced "junk" we've purchased. Larry Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
larry Posted November 4, 2007 Share #49 Posted November 4, 2007 I own 3 Lie Nielsen planes. They are the Leica's of the woodworking industry.There's nothing like the feel of a well crafted tool. They're some of the best planes available today. This one is based on a Stanley Bedrock design manufactured about 100 years ago. I have some of these still in service and they're a real treat to use. Larry Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
guywalder Posted November 4, 2007 Share #50 Posted November 4, 2007 This makes perfect sense. yes, but its also missing the point! Pretty much all my FW wants are to do with usability, not IQ. Dan, to my mind the whole ethos of the Leica M is a camera that is as invisible to the photographic process as possible, the extension of the photographers eye, or whatever the cliche is. What you seem to be describing is the opposite of that...? More generally why should we have to use all sorts of work arounds, or be patient with the camera? Why cant it just work properly for goodness sake?? After all autoreview is the only way to get a usable image with highlight warning.... since I dont like autoreview I cant see the highlight warning except on a postage stamp image, along side a postage stamp histogram. None of this stuff is earth shattering, and none of it needs to make the camera 'more complicated', it would however make it an even better camera Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptomsu Posted November 4, 2007 Share #51 Posted November 4, 2007 This makes perfect sense. This is not true! A reliable working WB is not something undoable and has to be expected from a camera in that price range. SDHC card support does not improve the image quality, but it improves my user satisfaction significantly. And last but not least a decently working CS is also good for my satisfaction. A camera is not just about being able to take excellent pictures, it is also about the supprt behind it. And this support really sucks - at least for the moment. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
delander † Posted November 4, 2007 Share #52 Posted November 4, 2007 Why cant it just work properly for goodness sake? Exactly right, agree entirely. Perhaps Leica should disable auto-review in the next FW and advertise the fact. Great new feature 'no auto review, instead use your BRAIN'. Then new purchasers would at least know what they are buying. Jeff Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted November 4, 2007 Share #53 Posted November 4, 2007 If i can't see what my lighting is doing Jeff and that maybe 10 lights than this thing is useless to me. You may not need review but I certainly do on many location shootings. In regards to firmware it would be nice to have some of the changes I sent to leica for our benefit in use but getting images correctly for me is not a issue. Should there be a new firmware , yes i agree and i welcome it but it does not stop me from getting the images that i need . Whatever firmware they were dishing out at Dale labs may not be what hits the streets either so i would NOT base anything off that whatsoever at this time. It could completely change at release time. Actually quite surprised they are giving that out, some of us have no knowledge of it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertwright Posted November 4, 2007 Share #54 Posted November 4, 2007 and the image noise looks improved by about a full stop, if it is true, it would be wonderful. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted November 4, 2007 Share #55 Posted November 4, 2007 It would be awesome if we could pick up a stop but until I have it in my hands to test than i don't want to get any hopes up. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
delander † Posted November 4, 2007 Share #56 Posted November 4, 2007 I think you misunderstood me Guy, what I wrote was a tongue-in-cheek reply to an earlier post. I want auto review to work properly ie no Venetian blinds. If the Dale-labs new FW was not going to be released why were the participants able to load it on their cameras? Jeff Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted November 4, 2007 Share #57 Posted November 4, 2007 Great question and wish I had a answer. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertwright Posted November 4, 2007 Share #58 Posted November 4, 2007 it is probably a release-candidate and not the final version. Stable but not final. When the final is released they would probably be wise to update again. it is a "teaser" tho. Leica knew the results of the new firmware would see the discussion boards so I think it is calculated move on their part to show real changes are in the pipeline. if that is what we are seeing, and I think we are. Those pics in the Dale thread are exactly the kind of situations where we get a ton of noise, dirty light, lots of pale beige areas, shadows, I get banding at 2500 iso on those shots, I saw none in the ones posted. So I'll stop banging the drum now. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Roberts Posted November 4, 2007 Share #59 Posted November 4, 2007 {snipped} Pretty dumb to include 1/3 of a stop accuracy, but then limit it to AE IMHO) your mileage may vary Um, side-stepping all the hand-wringing on the firmware update (remember, there was just one for electronic changes that didn't affect most peoples' cameras), let me just respond by telling folks "frequent" is a relative term. Relative to the DMR fw updates, M8's have been exceptionally fast and frequent. [Edited--should never skip posts!--sorry] Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
guywalder Posted November 4, 2007 Share #60 Posted November 4, 2007 Jamie, I would prefer it to be more logical for sure, without switching to Zeiss lenses that is, but given the physical architecture of the shutter speed dial, and the lenses I have (and have no intention of changing), then exposure comp is a compromise that seems easy to impliment. Maybe Leica will put 1/3rd stops on future lenses..? Oh that reminds me, an IQ improvement via FW -> lens coding via menu no need to be sorry, it really is ok to have your own opinion Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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