Light meter only in live view?

[kinetic]

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In the viewfinder, I see some red arrows / dot on the bottom, but I'm not sure what that is. Is it for focusing? Is it a light meter? I don't like to use live view, and mainly use the viewfinder. But I'm finding myself needing to toggle the live view on, adjust everything, half press the shutter, and then turn live view off to start shooting.

I'd love if I can just get a light meter inside the viewfinder. Any suggestions or maybe there's a better way to do this?

BTW this is my first rangefinder ever, so I'm still learning.

[Warton]

5 minutes ago, kinetic said:

In the viewfinder, I see some red arrows / dot on the bottom, but I'm not sure what that is. Is it for focusing? Is it a light meter? I don't like to use live view, and mainly use the viewfinder. But I'm finding myself needing to toggle the live view on, adjust everything, half press the shutter, and then turn live view off to start shooting.

I'd love if I can just get a light meter inside the viewfinder. Any suggestions or maybe there's a better way to do this?

BTW this is my first rangefinder ever, so I'm still learning.

Read the manual please 

and metering works both live view and via optical view finder

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[kinetic]

3 minutes ago, Warton said:

Read the manual please 

and metering works both live view and via optical view finder

Fine

For those who are lazy like me and want to just ask within the forums, here's your answer.

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[Photoworks]

don't skip the ofter pages, can be helpful. LOL

[Nimar]

Not intended as a slight but it rocks my little mind that anyone would buy such an expensive camera without even knowing how the metering works. 

 

Never mind that the same exposure indicators have been used for over 50 years. 

 

/rant

[SrMi]

2 minutes ago, Nimar said:

Not intended as a slight but it rocks my little mind that anyone would buy such an expensive camera without even knowing how the metering works. 

 

Never mind that the same exposure indicators have been used for over 50 years. 

 

/rant

I do not think that it matters whether the camera is expensive or cheap. Expensive cameras should not be bought by accomplished photographers only.

[Nimar]

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14 minutes ago, SrMi said:

I do not think that it matters whether the camera is expensive or cheap. Expensive cameras should not be bought by accomplished photographers only.

I don’t disagree. Just that I’d do a little research before getting a new system. 

Edited March 8, 2023 by Nimar

[SrMi]

29 minutes ago, Nimar said:

I don’t disagree. Just that I’d do a little research before getting a new system. 

I agree!

[Photoworks]

Maybe it was a gift!

[Tailwagger]

1 hour ago, Photoworks said:

Maybe it was a gift!

A Leica is always a gift... a gift one bestows on one's self. 😀

[kinetic]

Thanks for trying to understand how I could miss such a thing. Just to give you guys some insight:

1. I don't worry about light meters as something to understand before getting a camera. I know how these things work.
2. I know the camera has a light meter, and I've used plenty in the past, but this is my first Leica rangefinder, so I wasn't sure what I was looking at in the viewfinder
3. I was lazy sitting in a cozy window seat during a blizzard, and my camera manual is upstairs. I was browsing around and had thought about the light meter and was wondering if it was the red indicators or not. I've shot with Nikon, Canon, and Sony DSLR and mirrorless cameras, and their light meters all looked different (more like what you see on the LCD screen of the M11). So fine. I was super lazy and I thought people would jump at the question to answer something so simple, but instead I'm just getting people complaining about how stupid I must be.

I get it. It's nice to feel better than others and to point out how stupid and lazy someone can be. I asked for it. Now I'm going back to taking photos.

[SrMi]

1 hour ago, kinetic said:

Thanks for trying to understand how I could miss such a thing. Just to give you guys some insight:

1. I don't worry about light meters as something to understand before getting a camera. I know how these things work.
2. I know the camera has a light meter, and I've used plenty in the past, but this is my first Leica rangefinder, so I wasn't sure what I was looking at in the viewfinder
3. I was lazy sitting in a cozy window seat during a blizzard, and my camera manual is upstairs. I was browsing around and had thought about the light meter and was wondering if it was the red indicators or not. I've shot with Nikon, Canon, and Sony DSLR and mirrorless cameras, and their light meters all looked different (more like what you see on the LCD screen of the M11). So fine. I was super lazy and I thought people would jump at the question to answer something so simple, but instead I'm just getting people complaining about how stupid I must be.

I get it. It's nice to feel better than others and to point out how stupid and lazy someone can be. I asked for it. Now I'm going back to taking photos.

In case nobody said it yet: 

Welcome to the forum and congratulations on your first Leica rangefinder. May you enjoy it in good health. 

[dpitt]

1 hour ago, kinetic said:

Thanks for trying to understand how I could miss such a thing. Just to give you guys some insight:

1. I don't worry about light meters as something to understand before getting a camera. I know how these things work.
2. I know the camera has a light meter, and I've used plenty in the past, but this is my first Leica rangefinder, so I wasn't sure what I was looking at in the viewfinder
3. I was lazy sitting in a cozy window seat during a blizzard, and my camera manual is upstairs. I was browsing around and had thought about the light meter and was wondering if it was the red indicators or not. I've shot with Nikon, Canon, and Sony DSLR and mirrorless cameras, and their light meters all looked different (more like what you see on the LCD screen of the M11). So fine. I was super lazy and I thought people would jump at the question to answer something so simple, but instead I'm just getting people complaining about how stupid I must be.

I get it. It's nice to feel better than others and to point out how stupid and lazy someone can be. I asked for it. Now I'm going back to taking photos.

 I did not see exactly which M you bought. I can totally understand picking it up and wanting to start using it in stead of RTFM. And if there is any digital camera you can get away with that it is an M. Everything is almost as simple as using a pre-digital film camera. The light meter dots are very similar to the Nikon FM (classic) I owned once, so it's nothing new under the sun if you are old enough like me.

If you are new to RF and the M you should read some sections  of the manual (or find some good Youtube tutorial). I can highly recommend the site from Thorsten Overgaard I have learned a lot about working with Leica's in general from reading his reviews.

This is the bare minimum you should read in the manual:

1. Section about focusing with the RF patch.
2. Be aware the frame lines are as accurate as they can be, but you will notice they often are a bit too narrow depending on focusing distance. This is perfectly normal. The M is one of the most accurate RFs around, but IMO cropping in post is part of using a RF (and I love it nevertheless)
3. Be aware that only M rangefinder coupled lenses will focus with the RF. It's LV for all the other lenses, even with correct adapters.
4. If you want to venture into vintage lenses, it is important to read the section about which M lenses may NOT bet used on your M (because they will damage your camera). Also, non 6-bit encoded lenses wider than 50mm require you to choose the best approximate lens profile to give the best results. (and the results can be even more pleasing than with a modern lens)

Emjoy your camera and welcome to the Leica universe.

[Nimar]

I'm willing to admit I can come across as a grumpy old person.  I've always loved M cameras as they didn't need manuals, though its true for some of the digital menu options that's no longer the case.

For an anecdote of one, I handed my camera to a friend the other day who's never held a range finder and never shot a non digital camera.  He put it to his eye, said "ooh" what are those red lights, is that indicating exposure? Took a picture that was under exposed and figured out exactly what the lights meant.  About 10 seconds from picking up the camera and knowing what all the analogue controls and feedback did.

 

 

[lct]

Funny i use Leica Ms for 40+ years and i did not know that some of the LEDs refer to 1/2 stop. Thank you @kinetic and don't worry all oldies are not grumpy here... well not always grumpy  

[Nimar]

5 hours ago, lct said:

Funny i use Leica Ms for 40+ years and i did not know that some of the LEDs refer to 1/2 stop. Thank you @kinetic and don't worry all oldies are not grumpy here... well not always grumpy  

Very curious now what did you think • < stood for then? opposed to • and <

[DadDadDaddyo]

A story from when I spent 14 years in Alaska, some time back in the previous century. 

There was an old trapper in our neck of the woods, and he was building himself a log cabin. Using a rusty old bow saw, he was taking down excellent tall straight pines, perfect for a cabin. 

I asked him, though, "Why are you still using that rusty old bow saw? Things would go much faster & easier with a chain saw!"

Well, he hadn't heard of those, so I brought one by the next day, dropped it off, and said I'd check back in a couple of days to see how he was doing... 

A few days passed and I stopped by again, to find the old trapper back on his rusty old bow saw. I asked him what the heck had happened...

He said, "Well, that chain saw cut alright, I guess, but I still think I'm faster with my old bow saw."

"Hmmm," says I, "That seems strange. Let's see if it's working right."

So I picked it up, gave the starter cord a swift tug, and the chain saw roared into life. 

The old trapper's eyebrows shot up in astonishment as he jumped back and exclaimed, "What's that noise???"

 

Edited March 9, 2023 by DadDadDaddyo

[lct]

1 hour ago, Nimar said:

Very curious now what did you think • < stood for then? opposed to • and <

Variable levels of approximation.

[Kwesi]

16 hours ago, kinetic said:

Thanks for trying to understand how I could miss such a thing. Just to give you guys some insight:

1. I don't worry about light meters as something to understand before getting a camera. I know how these things work.
2. I know the camera has a light meter, and I've used plenty in the past, but this is my first Leica rangefinder, so I wasn't sure what I was looking at in the viewfinder
3. I was lazy sitting in a cozy window seat during a blizzard, and my camera manual is upstairs. I was browsing around and had thought about the light meter and was wondering if it was the red indicators or not. I've shot with Nikon, Canon, and Sony DSLR and mirrorless cameras, and their light meters all looked different (more like what you see on the LCD screen of the M11). So fine. I was super lazy and I thought people would jump at the question to answer something so simple, but instead I'm just getting people complaining about how stupid I must be.

I get it. It's nice to feel better than others and to point out how stupid and lazy someone can be. I asked for it. Now I'm going back to taking photos.

Welcome to the forum Kinetic,

looking forward to seeing your images in the image forum. I, for one, don’t think you are dumb or anything of the sort. I was just kind of surprised that the M being such an unusual camera today, anyone buying one especially if it has any electronics in it that one would download a manual and kind of peek under the hood while waiting for it to arrive. Anyhow I admire your sense of adventure and think actually you are the perfect match for an M. The kind of photographer who wants the camera to get out of their way so they can concentrate on making photos. 

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[kinetic]

22 hours ago, SrMi said:

In case nobody said it yet: 

Welcome to the forum and congratulations on your first Leica rangefinder. May you enjoy it in good health. 

Thanks so much! I've gotten a lot of warm welcomes for sure.

 

20 hours ago, dpitt said:

 I did not see exactly which M you bought. I can totally understand picking it up and wanting to start using it in stead of RTFM. And if there is any digital camera you can get away with that it is an M. Everything is almost as simple as using a pre-digital film camera. The light meter dots are very similar to the Nikon FM (classic) I owned once, so it's nothing new under the sun if you are old enough like me.

If you are new to RF and the M you should read some sections  of the manual (or find some good Youtube tutorial). I can highly recommend the site from Thorsten Overgaard I have learned a lot about working with Leica's in general from reading his reviews.

This is the bare minimum you should read in the manual:

1. Section about focusing with the RF patch.
2. Be aware the frame lines are as accurate as they can be, but you will notice they often are a bit too narrow depending on focusing distance. This is perfectly normal. The M is one of the most accurate RFs around, but IMO cropping in post is part of using a RF (and I love it nevertheless)
3. Be aware that only M rangefinder coupled lenses will focus with the RF. It's LV for all the other lenses, even with correct adapters.
4. If you want to venture into vintage lenses, it is important to read the section about which M lenses may NOT bet used on your M (because they will damage your camera). Also, non 6-bit encoded lenses wider than 50mm require you to choose the best approximate lens profile to give the best results. (and the results can be even more pleasing than with a modern lens)

Emjoy your camera and welcome to the Leica universe.

Thank you so much for this information. I did read about the RF patch, but I agree this is for sure the first thing anyone should look at. I didn't know that non M lenses would require the LV! That's good info. Anyway, the rest is awesome too. Thank you. I'll spend a bit more time every day reading a bit more in the manual and watching some good Youtube. I did see some of Thorsten's materials, which was very helpful.

 

13 hours ago, Nimar said:

I'm willing to admit I can come across as a grumpy old person.  I've always loved M cameras as they didn't need manuals, though its true for some of the digital menu options that's no longer the case.

For an anecdote of one, I handed my camera to a friend the other day who's never held a range finder and never shot a non digital camera.  He put it to his eye, said "ooh" what are those red lights, is that indicating exposure? Took a picture that was under exposed and figured out exactly what the lights meant.  About 10 seconds from picking up the camera and knowing what all the analogue controls and feedback did.

 

 

For some reason I thought it had to do with focus. I think my aunt showed me her old Nikon F2A once, and for some reason I thought it had to do with focusing. But in hindsight, it was probably exposure. I'm just so used to the metering display I see in the newer digital DSLRs and such I guess.

 

13 hours ago, lct said:

Funny i use Leica Ms for 40+ years and i did not know that some of the LEDs refer to 1/2 stop. Thank you @kinetic and don't worry all oldies are not grumpy here... well not always grumpy  

I'm known to be grumpy too. I don't think it's a bad thing all the time 😃 But yeah, the 1/2 stop stuff is cool.

 

8 hours ago, Nimar said:

Very curious now what did you think • < stood for then? opposed to • and <

I suspected it could have been exposure, which is why I asked. But I also thought it could be focus, though that didn't make any sense because I didn't think the camera had any indication about focus. I played with a Q2 for a week recently, so I was like: "maybe the M11 adopted some other bits from that, like losing the bottom baseplate." I don't know. I'm not claiming to be a genius savant, quite the opposite.

 

5 hours ago, Kwesi said:

Welcome to the forum Kinetic,

looking forward to seeing your images in the image forum. I, for one, don’t think you are dumb or anything of the sort. I was just kind of surprised that the M being such an unusual camera today, anyone buying one especially if it has any electronics in it that one would download a manual and kind of peek under the hood while waiting for it to arrive. Anyhow I admire your sense of adventure and think actually you are the perfect match for an M. The kind of photographer who wants the camera to get out of their way so they can concentrate on making photos. 

Thanks for the welcome! I haven't been able to post any images here because they're just too big and most exceed the maximum size. I know, I need to export them in a smaller format and all that, I just haven't gotten to it yet.

I do have the manual downloaded, and I've read some and watched some videos as well, but I was just dumb and lazy about this specific thing, and being on the forum already I decided to just post some question. Anyway, you have all proven to be very supportive and sweet, and I do believe I deserved the "RTFM" comments 😃

This is quite possibly the first photo I took with the camera. I had just picked it up and was in the passenger seat. I didn't have the manual and didn't have any cell service, so I just started shooting. Honestly, I figured out a lot more than I expected just by playing around with it.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!