Survey: Third-party Lenses for Leica M-mount

[ianforber]

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3 hours ago, Ouroboros said:

Survey completed.  Not sure what the purpose of it is but if anyone at CV is watching, some of us like to travel light so how about a reissue of the 28mm Color-Skopar f3.5  and a small collapsible 90mm, both in M mount? 
 

+1 on a CV collapsible 90mm. I hope Leica is using the survey to determine whether they should add 3rd party lenses to the menu of lenses you can choose in body as non-6bit coded (with CV doing all the hard work on generating all the data). 

Recently, I chose to buy a 35mm CV lens to add to my 50mm Summicron, mainly because of price and size but also because all the reviews said that the quality was just as good as Leica. So far, the image quality has been more than good enough for me. 

[pippy]

29 minutes ago, ianforber said:

...I hope Leica is using the survey...

I doubt it somehow, Ian. Here's Andreas' own post on the matter (#12 on page 1);

On 3/3/2023 at 1:14 PM, LUF Admin said:

Just to be clear: This survey is my own project and is not affiliated with Leica in any way...

It might be that Leica would be interested in the survey's results but its instigation seems to have nothing to do with the company.

Philip.

Edited March 6, 2023 by pippy

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[ianforber]

30 minutes ago, pippy said:

I doubt it somehow, Ian. Here's Andreas' own post on the matter (#12 on page 1);

It might be that Leica would be interested in the survey's results but its instigation seems to have nothing to do with the company.

Philip.

Fair point. I’d missed Andreas’ post. Still, here’s hoping Leica are reading!

[sdk]

I would be interested in a good macro lens for M mount now that I have an M11 and Visoflex EVF for it. Perhaps Voigtländer can adapt their reportedly excellent 65mm/2 Apo Lanthar Aspherical macro? Or Zeiss or Leica could design one. I don't think I would be interested in the slow, primitive Leica 90mm/4 Makro Elmar. F/2.8 is the minimal maximum aperture that I would find useful. Right now I use a Zeiss 50mm/2 or 100mm/2 Makro planar ZF.2 with a Novoflex LEM/NIK-NT adapter. Such a  set up is very workable, but it would be better to have a native M-mount solution.

[sdk]

22 hours ago, atournas said:

I took the survey, which was beneficial for me as well, for I learnt about Meyer Optik Görlitz. All in all, I trust German lens makers. 

Caveat emptor. This is not the same company as the original Meyer Optik Görlitz. I am not sure, but the company that bought the name and trademarks may be headquartered in the USA, and having lenses made under contract in Asia. The lenses may be fine. I have not routed any of them.

[sdk]

10 hours ago, RexGig0 said:

Leica has abandoned the 24mm focal length. Zeiss markets a quite nice 25mm f/2.8 ZM lens.

This is not a factual comment, I think. Both the current Leica 24mm/3.8 and 21mm/1.4 lenses were designed and produced AFTER the Zeiss 25mm/2.8 ZM. I sold my 25mm Biogon after getting the Leica 24mm/3.8 Elmar ASPH, not because the Zeiss is bad but I only needed one, and slightly preferred the Leica.

Zeiss has actually abandoned introducing new lens designs for the M-Mount. There have been no new Zeiss ZMs introduced since 2014's truly excellent 35mm/1.4 Distagon ZM. Zero. Most of the ZM lenses are optimized for film, and show some shortcomings on Leica digital bodies, such as reduced sharpness in the corners. Zeiss is the manufacturer that is resting on their laurels, while Voigtländer and Leica have continued to introduce new high-quality designs in a variety of focal lengths for M-bodies.

[lct]

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2 hours ago, sdk said:

I would be interested in a good macro lens for M mount now that I have an M11 and Visoflex EVF for it. Perhaps Voigtländer can adapt their reportedly excellent 65mm/2 Apo Lanthar Aspherical macro? Or Zeiss or Leica could design one. I don't think I would be interested in the slow, primitive Leica 90mm/4 Makro Elmar. F/2.8 is the minimal maximum aperture that I would find useful. Right now I use a Zeiss 50mm/2 or 100mm/2 Makro planar ZF.2 with a Novoflex LEM/NIK-NT adapter. Such a  set up is very workable, but it would be better to have a native M-mount solution.

I have kept my Elmarit-R 60/2.8 but DoF is too shallow below f/4 for my taste so i mainly use a Macro-Elmar-M 90/4 with macro adapter v1 or v2. BTW the Skopar 90/2.8 is no slouch above f/4 with the macro adapter v2. Here at f/8 on M11 at about 0.4m MFD. 

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[graphlex]

On 3/5/2023 at 4:51 AM, lct said:

I have no experience with it but it is the Heliar 50/2 for Bessa R2M and R3M 250th Voigtländer anniversary. Only 2,500 were produced in 2006 IINW. See https://cameraquest.com/

Edited March 6, 2023 by graphlex
Correction

[ianforber]

2 hours ago, sdk said:

I would be interested in a good macro lens for M mount now that I have an M11 and Visoflex EVF for it. Perhaps Voigtländer can adapt their reportedly excellent 65mm/2 Apo Lanthar Aspherical macro? Or Zeiss or Leica could design one. I don't think I would be interested in the slow, primitive Leica 90mm/4 Makro Elmar. F/2.8 is the minimal maximum aperture that I would find useful. Right now I use a Zeiss 50mm/2 or 100mm/2 Makro planar ZF.2 with a Novoflex LEM/NIK-NT adapter. Such a  set up is very workable, but it would be better to have a native M-mount solution.

I’m not a macro shooter and am interested in the 90mm Elmar for its mild telephoto abilities. However, I kept my Q2 for the odd occasion when I need a close focus capability

[sdk]

The Voigtländer 90mm/2.8 Apo Skopar is an amazing small 90mm for the M-mount, and even the older screw mount Apo Lanthar 90mm/3.5 is quite good. They ar bargains that do not sacrifice image quality in any way versus Leica 90mm lenses. I have owned the 90mm/2 Apo Summicron ASPH, thin Tele Emarit 90mm/2.8, and 90mm/4 Elmar C, and only was impressed by the 90mm/2, but it's very heavy and long for what it is. Really hated the flare-prone Tele Elmarit, though it was an old, used lens by the time I had it.

[madNbad]

Price is becoming more of a consideration. The most affordable Leica lens has continually been the 28 2.8 Elmarit ASPH. Not too long ago they could be found new for about $1800 usd. Now the going price is a thousand dollars more and the changes to the lens have been minimal. Many casual users would have a hard time pointing out which image was taken with a thirty five hundred dollar 35 Summicron ASPH or a eight hundred dollar 35 Ultron ASPH.

Film users have benefited from these more affordable choices. Many that are buying their first M body may not have the funds to jump into the Leica pool but want a well made lens that is both affordable and performs well. I don’t use the 50mm focal length very often and when I owned a V5 50mm Summicron it sat in my bag most of the time. A few months back, I came across a V1 50mm Nokton 1.5 for four hundred usd. Even if I don’t use it regularly, it’s nice to have a fast 50 on hand. It’s not a Summilux but it’s good enough for my needs. 
As other companies offer M mount lenses, it will be good for all Leica M users. The Light Lens Lab reissue line is providing classic designs for real world  use when the originals are collector items. 
There is the fact that some users may start with a Voigtlander or Zeiss lens and make the decision to make the next step and buy a Leica lens. Choice can be a good thing and it’s nice to be in a time where there are so many.

[logan2z]

I've always preferred to use Leica lenses on my Leica cameras and never seriously considered buying a third-party M mount lens. 

I recently started thinking about adding another 35mm lens to my kit to use on my M2 and my first thought was to buy the latest Summicron ASPH.  But that lens is nearly $4K now and I'm not sure I can justify the cost for a single lens that I might not use that often.  So I've started looking at Zeiss and Voigtlander more seriously and just rented the Zeiss 35mm/2.8 Biogon for a week to see if it lives up to its hype. 

Who knows, after trying some third-party lenses I may ultimately end up shelling out for the Summicron, but the non-Leica options have started to look a lot more attractive to me lately.

Edited March 6, 2023 by logan2z

[madNbad]

1 hour ago, logan2z said:

So I've started looking at Zeiss and Voigtlander more seriously and just rented the Zeiss 35mm/2.8 Biogon for a week to see if it lives up to its hype. 

It will. It's a great lens and I used one on my M2 quite a bit. It was sold along with the M2. The two biggest strikes against it are, the hood is expensive and if you have a bunch of 39 mm filters, it takes a 43 mm. I just bought a Voigtlander 35 1.4 Nokton VII SC. It was lightly used, came with the hood and two filters (also the annoying 43 mm size) for less than five hundred usd. I got it to use as the primary lens for the M4-2.

[sometimesmaybe]

On 3/6/2023 at 3:11 AM, atournas said:

I took the survey, which was beneficial for me as well, for I learnt about Meyer Optik Görlitz. All in all, I trust German lens makers. 

unfortunately i dont think they're coupled... so liveview only 

[logan2z]

24 minutes ago, madNbad said:

The two biggest strikes against it are, the hood is expensive and if you have a bunch of 39 mm filters, it takes a 43 mm. 

Yeah, I've read all of the criticisms of the lens. 

I do find it a bit humorous that people who use Leica cameras call an $85 hood expensive.  Expensive compared to what?  The 'free' hood included with the $4K Summicron? 

I don't really have a problem with the 43mm filter size either.  I shoot B&W film exclusively and typically use exactly one type of filter on my lenses - a yellow filter.  And even though I have multiple Leica lenses that take a 39mm filter, I hate fiddling around moving filters from lens to lens so I have a yellow filter on each lens.  So buying one more yellow filter - albeit in a different size - isn't really an issue for me.

Edited March 6, 2023 by logan2z

[madNbad]

43 minutes ago, logan2z said:

Yeah, I've read all of the criticisms of the lens. 

I do find it a bit humorous that people who use Leica cameras call an $85 hood expensive.  Expensive compared to what?  The 'free' hood included with the $4K Summicron? 

I don't really have a problem with the 43mm filter size either.  I shoot B&W film exclusively and typically use exactly one type of filter on my lenses - a yellow filter.  And even though I have multiple Leica lenses that take a 39mm filter, I hate fiddling around moving filters from lens to lens so I have a yellow filter on each lens.  So buying one more yellow filter - albeit in a different size - isn't really an issue for me.

A couple of years ago decided just to use B&W film and all the lenses have a B+W 022 yellow filter. I do have a group of 39 mm filters that have been carried a lot.

[lct]

1 hour ago, madNbad said:

It will. It's a great lens and I used one on my M2 quite a bit. It was sold along with the M2. The two biggest strikes against it are, the hood is expensive and if you have a bunch of 39 mm filters, it takes a 43 mm. I just bought a Voigtlander 35 1.4 Nokton VII SC. It was lightly used, came with the hood and two filters (also the annoying 43 mm size) for less than five hundred usd. I got it to use as the primary lens for the M4-2.

The hoods of ZM 35/2.8 and CV 35/1.4 lenses are the same, only the names are different. The white paint of those names (especially the Zeiss) is easy to erase, if needed, with a drop of nail polish remover. BTW 43mm filters are also used on other ZM (35/2, 50/2...) and CV (50/1.5...) lenses, let alone a couple Leica's (50/1.4...). 

Edited March 6, 2023 by lct

[atournas]

15 hours ago, sdk said:

Caveat emptor. This is not the same company as the original Meyer Optik Görlitz. I am not sure, but the company that bought the name and trademarks may be headquartered in the USA, and having lenses made under contract in Asia. The lenses may be fine. I have not routed any of them.

Thanks for the info. Truth is, I became skeptical soon after my post on first hearing about the company, for I then noticed that there is not coupling between lens and camera RF. 

Edited March 7, 2023 by atournas

[RexGig0]

20 hours ago, sdk said:

This is not a factual comment, I think. Both the current Leica 24mm/3.8 and 21mm/1.4 lenses were designed and produced AFTER the Zeiss 25mm/2.8 ZM. I sold my 25mm Biogon after getting the Leica 24mm/3.8 Elmar ASPH, not because the Zeiss is bad but I only needed one, and slightly preferred the Leica.

Zeiss has actually abandoned introducing new lens designs for the M-Mount. There have been no new Zeiss ZMs introduced since 2014's truly excellent 35mm/1.4 Distagon ZM. Zero. Most of the ZM lenses are optimized for film, and show some shortcomings on Leica digital bodies, such as reduced sharpness in the corners. Zeiss is the manufacturer that is resting on their laurels, while Voigtländer and Leica have continued to introduce new high-quality designs in a variety of focal lengths for M-bodies.

Please check the availability of 24mm Leica M lenses, and look at the relevant recent forum posts here at LUF, if you think that there are any “current” 24mm Leica-branded M lenses. There is no need for you to believe me. 🙂

I do truly love the Leica Elmar-M 24mm f/3.8 ASPH lens. News of its discontinuation, and finding no new ones in stock, sent me on a quest to find well-preserved, pre-owned samples, before the collectors “discovered” them. I found one on the “e.b.” on-line site, and bought it. I liked it enough to buy a second one, because the best insurance against loss or damage, especially if an item has been discontinued, is to have a second/back-up/spare. Th Elmar-M 24mm f/3.8 ASPH is a wonderful lens. 🙂

I have kept my Zeiss 25mm ZM, since acquiring my 24mm Elmar ASPH lenses. 25mm is a bit different from 24mm, f/2.8 allows more light to reach the sensor than f/3.8, lenses do not exhibit jealousy, and, the Zeiss does not eat much. Whenever it was actually developed, B&H has received renewed stock of the Zeiss 25mm ZM, since a time in 2022 when the silver finish version was out of stock. 

It is true that Zeiss has not been releasing new ZM lenses, since the release of the Distagon 1,4/35mm ZM. Lamentably, it seems that it may be the last of its kind.

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[ianforber]

16 hours ago, madNbad said:

It will. It's a great lens and I used one on my M2 quite a bit. It was sold along with the M2. The two biggest strikes against it are, the hood is expensive and if you have a bunch of 39 mm filters, it takes a 43 mm. I just bought a Voigtlander 35 1.4 Nokton VII SC. It was lightly used, came with the hood and two filters (also the annoying 43 mm size) for less than five hundred usd. I got it to use as the primary lens for the M4-2.

One of the reasons I bought the CV 35mm f1.5 was that it used 39mm filters. I have ND and polariser filters and don’t want to duplicate them.