Jump to content

I made a big mistake by selling my M10!


JoshuaRothman

Recommended Posts

Advertisement (gone after registration)

I came to Leica through the Q2, then eventually ended up with a film and digital M setup. All was well, bliss abounded in my hobby kingdom, and I enjoyed the supreme elegance of sharing a set of lenses between film and digital bodies that operated exactly the same.

Then, one day, after a few minor frustrations with rangefinder focusing, I started to think about my old Q2. Hadn't it been convenient to have a digital camera capable of crop-to-zoom, eliminating the need to carry multiple lenses? Wasn't autofocus incredibly useful? What about that totally silent leaf shutter? I looked back through my Lightroom catalog and was impressed by all the pictures of my family I'd taken with my Q2. They looked so clear and vivid! The M10 could be a bit of a pain, especially when it came to focussing on moving children in bad light.... Maybe, I thought, a film camera should be a film camera, and a digital camera should be fully modern and digital. I sold my M10 and picked up a Q2 for the second time, to use alongside my M4-P.

Well . . . . a few weeks in, I'm discovering that this was a big mistake. Sure enough, the Q2 takes great pictures. But I really miss my M10. Now that I have a Q2 again, I'm realizing how much more I enjoy the directness of manual focus and to the simplicity of an optical viewfinder. It's as though, during the time I was all-M, I forgot what an EVF/AF camera was really like. I used to think that AF was fast, and it can be, but it can also be slow and fiddly. The Q2 images are beautiful, but I miss the way my Zeiss 50 Sonnar looked on the M10. Etc., etc., etc.

I feel totally dumb. I had a fantastic setup and have lost it! Now the only way back to paradise is to trade the Q2 for an M10 again, almost certainly incurring a financial penalty along the way.

This is probably my biggest-ever gear regret event!

Edited by JoshuaRothman
  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites

No worries, you learned a lesson. I went through a similar path a few years ago. Turns out I HAVE to have a digital M body. You're right, there's just something about the feel and the process that, if I don't have one, I'll miss it. 

Sell the Q2 on FredMiranda or wherever and or make a trade for an M10...they're pretty much equal value. Then...Stay away from the Q's. :)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Feel your pain.  Bought a new Q2-M after debating with myself for ages about not being able to afford an M10-M, after being an M film user for years.  Used the Q2-M for ~4 months, loved the resulting photos but not the experience of using it, EVF / AF yuck!  Ended up selling it at 30-40% loss and buying a used m10-M after all and now couldn't be happier.  Basically ended up paying new price for a used M10-M but at least I've got the camera of my dreams.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Quote

...Well . . . . a few weeks in, I'm discovering that this was a big mistake....

I have said that about pretty much every M lens I have ever traded away.  I'm missing my XPAN II and 45/4 lens, too.

At this point in my life, I am through head butting the sell/trade brick wall. 

I hope... 😨

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Advertisement (gone after registration)

1 hour ago, Olaf_ZG said:

Yet, my advice is not to sell the Q. If possible, keep it along side a digital M. If you sell the Q, you will miss it.

I do speak from experience…

This is the question: is the best possible setup (for me!) a film M, a digital M, and a Q? Possibly it is, but I'm not sure I can afford it....

Edited by JoshuaRothman
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I bought a Q2 a year ago and it has become my "go-to" digital camera.  My M10 and (soon to be sold) M10R BP are feeling very ignored.  I may keep the M10 out of nostalgia since it was my first Leica digital camera but I wouldn't miss using it.  The only "never sell" Leica I own is my old 1984 M6 which was my favorite of all my various (Leica/Nikon/Canon/Pentax) 35mm film cameras.

Edited by Mikep996
Link to post
Share on other sites

The problem is that you can not use 2 bodies at the same time. All you can do is bring both and choose the one that is best for the occasion. It all depends on subject, light, distance to subject and not in the least on your own mood and energy level.

At least with the Q you have one of the few worthy alternatives to the M. My worthy light, compact AF body, is the Leica X2 with EVF. A lot of the other alternatives I tried, made me regret not having used the M9 (or M8) to take the shot.

Link to post
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, dpitt said:

The problem is that you can not use 2 bodies at the same time. All you can do is bring both and choose the one that is best for the occasion. It all depends on subject, light, distance to subject and not in the least on your own mood and energy level.

I definitely suffer from a kind of Gear Optimization Syndrome. It involves always looking for some combination of kit that will somehow elevate my photography, or keep it interesting, or prepare me for all eventualities. This has led me on several spirit quests through Leicaland and other territories. And yet what you say is exactly right: you can only use one camera at a time.

Given the rising cost of film, and my recent misadventures in kit curation, I'm of half a mind to just simplify totally, letting go of both the Q2 and M4-P in favor of an M10-R and 28/35/50. Just one camera and my small clutch of lenses.

  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites

Not a jab but it just occurred to me that the vast majority of threads on this forum and essentially GAS counselling of one form or another.

Its a self help group for those with cameras problems, people even talk about their dealers.

  • Like 2
  • Haha 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, JoshuaRothman said:

I definitely suffer from a kind of Gear Optimization Syndrome. It involves always looking for some combination of kit that will somehow elevate my photography, or keep it interesting, or prepare me for all eventualities. This has led me on several spirit quests through Leicaland and other territories. And yet what you say is exactly right: you can only use one camera at a time.

Given the rising cost of film, and my recent misadventures in kit curation, I'm of half a mind to just simplify totally, letting go of both the Q2 and M4-P in favor of an M10-R and 28/35/50. Just one camera and my small clutch of lenses.

Maybe I suffer the same too. I have just bought the Leica SL as a complement to my M9, mainly for some indoors shooting and macro shooting. Even if I had a M10R + EVF, it could not match what the SL does now in the macro domain and with my R lenses (some very heavy). The handling of the M10 becomes very awkward with large and heavy lenses. I do not think the prefect alround camera does exist. You always have to compromise at some point. Keeping options and choosing the best tool for the job is key IMO.

Link to post
Share on other sites

JoshuaRothman,   To look at it this way, you are definitely not alone with as you wrote; GOS.  There are many photographers out there with the same quandary.  My many decades in the Leica world of film and digital caused me the same angst.  Many photographers will offer their advice to include myself, but it will be your decision on what works best for your genre of photography.  Perhaps you solved your problem with the last sentence in your above post. That kit with a most excellent M10-R and M lenses will help you create the type of photographs that you and family will cherish for decades while having the tools that you enjoy creating such.    r/ Mark   

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think there is a space for a high quality fixed lens AF digital camera in most peoples kit. The M is a wonderful experience but it isn't always the best for causal work and it's a bit expensive to rough around on hikes / take to work (well it is for me). If you can afford to have a Q2 as well, that's all well and good. Given other priorities I can't justify £4000 for a used Q, so I have an RX1Rii instead I picked up for £1400.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Ah… well, I’m in London today with the Q2 as I wanted compact, quiet and quick.  When I go back up to Kendal I’ll be using the M10-R for landscape and documentation - but then I’ve got a couple of jobs coming up when the SL2 is the obvious tool.  They all let you make images that are as good as you are able to make. 
I know I’m very lucky to be able have all three. If I had to have only one? Aargh… the M10-R and the 28, 35, 50, 135 that have stood me in good stead for a few decades would be the last to go.

Sadly, this probably doesn’t help the OP very much 🫤

Link to post
Share on other sites

31 minutes ago, newtoleica said:

I think there is a space for a high quality fixed lens AF digital camera in most peoples kit. The M is a wonderful experience but it isn't always the best for causal work and it's a bit expensive to rough around on hikes / take to work (well it is for me). If you can afford to have a Q2 as well, that's all well and good. Given other priorities I can't justify £4000 for a used Q, so I have an RX1Rii instead I picked up for £1400.

I think you've put your finger on my mistake. I missed having an easy-to-use AF digital camera—so I should've bought a Fuji X-E4 or X100 or the like—or even a digital CL!—and kept my M10. Trading the M10 for a Q2 was the wrong move—I should've kept the M10 as my main digital camera.

Lesson learned!

  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites

On 3/2/2023 at 9:53 PM, JoshuaRothman said:

I think you've put your finger on my mistake. I missed having an easy-to-use AF digital camera—so I should've bought a Fuji X-E4 or X100 or the like—or even a digital CL!—and kept my M10. Trading the M10 for a Q2 was the wrong move—I should've kept the M10 as my main digital camera.

Lesson learned!

Thinking out of the box here. If you miss the M10 for RF experience and want to economize, maybe you could consider buying a used M9(with non corroding sensor!) or M240 and keep the Q2. At base ISO, I think the M9 would completely satisfy you and you always have the Q2 for when you need ISO 800 and more. I still have the M9 and would probably welcome a M10 mostly for the LV feature. But I spent my money on a used SL which brings me more than an M10 regarding EVF and handling with R lenses. It also helps indoors with low lighting situations. I do not even have a AF lens for the SL, but in the future a used Sigma could  add an other aspect, although I detest the size of native SL lenses. The M9 will still be my super portable and very performant solution for outdoors, and medium light indoors. In this area it leaves very little to be wanted for my use.

I have been looking for a companion camera for the M9 since I bought it in 2015. It was very hard to find an AF solution that is more compact and produces similar results. Basically it does not exist unless you spend more on the compact than on the M9. My Leica X2 was the closest solution, after having tried Fuji and Panasonic solutions (still have the Gx8). The Gx8 is very good, but not as good as the X2, even if I use it with a nice voigtlander 15mm. And it is a lot heavier and less compact than the X2.

If I had trouble matching the M9, matching the M10 would be even harder. My conclusion is that you can not have convenience of AF and a package significantly lighter and more compact than the M system. Some are close, but IMO still make you take the M as much as you can.

Link to post
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, dpitt said:

Thinking out of the box here. If you miss the M10 for RF experience and want to economize, maybe you could consider buying a used M9(with non corroding sensor!) or M240 and keep the Q2. At base ISO, I think the M9 would completely satisfy you and you always have the Q2 for when you need ISO 800 and more. I still have the M9 and would probably welcome a M10 mostly for the LV feature. But I spent my money on a used SL which brings me more than an M10 regarding EVF and handling with R lenses. It also helps indoors with low lighting situations. I do not even have a AF lens for the SL, but in the future a used Sigma could  add an other aspect, although I detest the size of native SL lenses. The M9 will still be my super portable and very performant solution for outdoors, and medium light indoors. In this area it leaves very little to be wanted for my use.

Thanks very much for this advice. One camera I've been looking into is the M262. It's just on the edge of what I could afford, and if I picked that up I'd have a film M, a digital M, and a Q2.... 

  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites

I’ve got an M10-R and have a fantasy of owning a Q3M or M10-M. 
 

However I’m not sure that will financially feasible in the short term. 
 

That’s the biggest disadvantage to Leica: the cost of expansion once you’re on board. 
 

When I first entered the M world in about 2000 with an M7, my recollection is that, whilst certainly not cheap, the lenses generally were not as expensive as today. 
 

Mind you, in those days you could walk into a dealer and buy a Rolex Submariner off the shelf for £2,500 with zero waiting list. 
 

Life has got both more complex and more expensive since then. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...