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Compared to the 5D....made me laugh

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I got a little chuckle tonight. I'm taking a street photography class and we needed to have cameras with us at class. My M8 with a little itty bitty CV21 was sitting next to a 5D with an simply enormous 16mm lens, a 5D with a 24mm (just ever so slightly smaller) and a third 5D with a 28mm. I felt like I was shooting with a pocket sized point and shoot.

 

I know most people here use available light but tonight we were learning ways to incorporate flash.

 

Now take the 3 5D's and add the 580EX flashes.....I add my little toy SF24D and it just gets to be a more absurd comparison.

 

I've had venetian blinds (actually a couple of times recently), the fast scrolling menu, SD cards that keep showing up as locked and some horrific white balances, but absolutely no way I would trade for one of those beasts of a camera.

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Welcome and thanks for your valuable comments.

 

So size matters, eh . . ?

 

Have you considered medium format?

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Guest stnami
So size matters, eh . .?
...sure does in a brothel...............who likes being laughed at!!!!!! ..........don't laugh too loud it could be you:D

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The 5D is not a bad camera. I used to have it.

 

The M8 is much better for me.

 

Next week I'm going to do a 5D VS M8 comparison. I'll post it here.

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Guest stnami
The M8 is much better for me.,
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,foregone conclusion why bother

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I got a little chuckle tonight. I'm taking a street photography class and we needed to have cameras with us at class. My M8 with a little itty bitty CV21 was sitting next to a 5D with an simply enormous 16mm lens, a 5D with a 24mm (just ever so slightly smaller) and a third 5D with a 28mm. I felt like I was shooting with a pocket sized point and shoot.

 

I know most people here use available light but tonight we were learning ways to incorporate flash.

 

Now take the 3 5D's and add the 580EX flashes.....I add my little toy SF24D and it just gets to be a more absurd comparison.

 

I've had venetian blinds (actually a couple of times recently), the fast scrolling menu, SD cards that keep showing up as locked and some horrific white balances, but absolutely no way I would trade for one of those beasts of a camera.

 

 

How did you like the shutter delay when using the M8 with ttl-flash?

By the way , a Ricoh GRD would have been even smaller than your M8

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How did you like the shutter delay when using the M8 with ttl-flash?

By the way , a Ricoh GRD would have been even smaller than your M8

 

I have not had any M8 problems whatsoever, and I note no significant shutter delay using the M8 and flash- still faster than my old DSLR.

 

As an interesting note, I am taking a digital photograpy class at a local community college as well, just for the heck of it. I seem to know as much about general photography as the wedding photog instructer knows about photograpy (I am an advanced amateur) so I am not sure what I will get out of this class. What is interesting is that the other people in the class (non-photographers, the general public) JUST BOUGHT their DSLR's- Canon 5D and 40D, Nikon D80/D300 with lenses/flashes and don't yet know how to use them. I too have noted the size difference between my little M8 with my Leica SF24D flash and the other huge cameras/lenses/flashes. The instructor mentioned to me (noting my black M8 from across the room) that I was supposed to bring a digital camera to class, not some "old-timey" film camera! I had to show him the rear LCD screen to convince him that the M8 was a digital camera. When I showed him some sample pictures (requested to be brought to class for the instructor to access the student's ability) taken with my M8, he quickly changed his mind that this little camera could actually take some good pix.

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How did you like the shutter delay when using the M8 with ttl-flash?

By the way , a Ricoh GRD would have been even smaller than your M8

 

Actually, the new GRD II announced yesterday looks interesting now that it wont take 12 seconds to write a file. I'm also interested to see if the adapter for 40mm is small, that would be really nice.

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Horses for courses.

 

While I agree that the M8 is better for street photography and the 5D is less than obtrusive (try putting an L bracket on it to make it a really big hunk of camera) I'm not sure that I agree with many of hte other sentiments.

 

I still own a 5D and although I have barely used it since I bought the M8, I still enjoy using it and may well use it more once the M8 honeymoon period is over, I'm 6 months into that honeymoon though

 

Lloyd, you mention that many peoiple have just bought their DSLR's and don't know how to use them, do you mean from an artisitic or technical point of view? I would assume technical. From a technical perspective you have a smaller hill to climb, simply because there aren't as many bells and whistles on the M8. That's a good thing I think, it gets you closer to the process of image making. Therefore, surely it is better that they don't know how to use them. FWIW, I still have no idea how to change the focus points on the 5D and htere are many other techie things in the 5D that I never learnt about. I learnt about the things that I used.

 

On the rare occasion that I take out the lights the 5D will come out. Tried it with the M8, just don't enjoy it.

 

Also, I hope to shoot more landscapes once again in the future, I can see me using the 5D for that.

 

The 5D is a good camera, the M8 is better for some things, not all things. It's a tool.

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Guest s.m.e.p.
I've had venetian blinds (actually a couple of times recently), the fast scrolling menu, SD cards that keep showing up as locked and some horrific white balances, but absolutely no way I would trade for one of those beasts of a camera.

 

It depends on your needs...

 

If you need good tool for working you must buy a camera that is a little bit bigger.

If you want a small cute toy with a little funny flash without real ttl and just direct light it´s o.k. to buy the M8.

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I have not had any M8 problems whatsoever, and I note no significant shutter delay using the M8 and flash- still faster than my old DSLR.

 

As an interesting note, I am taking a digital photograpy class at a local community college as well, just for the heck of it. I seem to know as much about general photography as the wedding photog instructer knows about photograpy (I am an advanced amateur) so I am not sure what I will get out of this class. What is interesting is that the other people in the class (non-photographers, the general public) JUST BOUGHT their DSLR's- Canon 5D and 40D, Nikon D80/D300 with lenses/flashes and don't yet know how to use them. I too have noted the size difference between my little M8 with my Leica SF24D flash and the other huge cameras/lenses/flashes. The instructor mentioned to me (noting my black M8 from across the room) that I was supposed to bring a digital camera to class, not some "old-timey" film camera! I had to show him the rear LCD screen to convince him that the M8 was a digital camera. When I showed him some sample pictures (requested to be brought to class for the instructor to access the student's ability) taken with my M8, he quickly changed his mind that this little camera could actually take some good pix.

 

I'm not sure how valuable that class will be.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

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If you want a small cute toy (...) it´s o.k. to buy the M8.

 

May I ask what makes you post in the M8 forum? Your website indicates that you use film Leicas, now I am rather sure you would have a very hard time in getting the same image quality from a M7 as from a M8, but yet you seem quite obsessed to critisize the M8 on a daily basis. Is it a psychological need to insist on a negative position or is someone asking you to do so?

 

I don't yet have a M8 but seriously think about it. I have shot a hundred (RAW) frames with an M8 and in comparision with my own EOS 5d I can say that the M8 has nothing to hide. I'd give the overall IQ edge to the M8 quite easily, whether the total resolution is equal or slightly different I cannot say, but the files have much better sharpness out of the box without additional sharpening and are also cleaner at base ISO(160) and BTW better DR (less blown highlights). Image quality is more than the number of pixels I guess you know that...

 

Whether someone can live with a rangefinder or not, is a purely personal decision and has little to do with quality. It has been said many times here that one should consider the M8 more like a MF camera (Medium format and manual focus actually), which means less comfortable to use but with results not easily to get with a DSLR. I also must say I am tired of schlepping the 5d with 3 lenses while traveling. The M8 setup is half the weight (in comparision one would almost say with no weight), smaller and less obstrusive. It is not surprising that a lot of people come to the conclusion that it is not for them - value for the money is also not as good as with a mainstream mass produced japanese DSLR which is powered by cashback propgrams, but I guess that is the price for small niche products that are (partly hand-) made in Germany.

 

If you want a small, very light camera setup with very high IQ, what are the alternatives? I don't know of one single.... Think about it.

 

One last thought: I am always more interested in what IS possible with a specific gear (if it is worthwhile trying it) than what is NOT possible. Photos are made by what IS possible.

 

With a positive attitude one may discover the qualities of a system, with a negative it is generally only about being right.

 

Schöne Grüße aus Berlin

 

bernhard

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Most workshops are not worth the money!

 

This is where living in NY comes in very handy. The International Center for Photgraphy has a great continuing education program. There are a lot of talented instructors and the students are from around the world. There always seems to be a mix of full time students in the continuing we classes which makes it all the more interesting. The facilities are first rate with digital labs on mac EIZO monitors. Printing is with Epson 1800, 2400 and large scale printers and all sorts of scanners. Coming up there is a class in Fine Art printing and the another in large scale that should be a lot of fun.

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For some weeks I have been photographing (no flash) in the new Kolumba Museum Koeln designed by Mr. Zumthor - a wonderful building - using the M8 with WATE, Noctolux 58ø, 35/1.4 Aspherical, 28/2 asph. etc. and correcting the AWB with an Expodisc 10x10cm. The results are good, except for the white balance in only tungsten lighting (staircases) and in mixed tungsten/daylight. I also used a Novoflex Nikon to Leica M adapter + my old 12mm Nikon WA f 5.6 with similar results. Today I put the Nikon onto my D5 with a Haoda adapter and used AWB and aperture priority. The colours were, on average, more accurate or at least more like my visual impression.

Don't get me wrong, I love my two M8's, their files and their handling, but I really hope for an improvement of the AWB with the next firmare update. The other known foibles are a bother, but the AWB is hard - for me at least - to get right in difficult light - even with an Expodisc or grey card.

In spite of various helpful threads, I regret that I have not managed to learn how to post pictures in the forum, and therefore can only explain verbally.

Teddy

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Guest Bernd Banken

Why playing beta-tester and paying a lot of money to do so?

 

Bernd

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Guest s.m.e.p.
May I ask what makes you post in the M8 forum? Your website indicates that you use film Leicas, now I am rather sure you would have a very hard time in getting the same image quality from a M7 as from a M8, but yet you seem quite obsessed to critisize the M8 on a daily basis. Is it a psychological need to insist on a negative position or is someone asking you to do so?

 

I don't yet have a M8 but seriously think about it. I have shot a hundred (RAW) frames with an M8 and in comparision with my own EOS 5d I can say that the M8 has nothing to hide. I'd give the overall IQ edge to the M8 quite easily, whether the total resolution is equal or slightly different I cannot say, but the files have much better sharpness out of the box without additional sharpening and are also cleaner at base ISO(160) and BTW better DR (less blown highlights). Image quality is more than the number of pixels I guess you know that...

 

Whether someone can live with a rangefinder or not, is a purely personal decision and has little to do with quality. It has been said many times here that one should consider the M8 more like a MF camera (Medium format and manual focus actually), which means less comfortable to use but with results not easily to get with a DSLR. I also must say I am tired of schlepping the 5d with 3 lenses while traveling. The M8 setup is half the weight (in comparision one would almost say with no weight), smaller and less obstrusive. It is not surprising that a lot of people come to the conclusion that it is not for them - value for the money is also not as good as with a mainstream mass produced japanese DSLR which is powered by cashback propgrams, but I guess that is the price for small niche products that are (partly hand-) made in Germany.

 

If you want a small, very light camera setup with very high IQ, what are the alternatives? I don't know of one single.... Think about it.

 

One last thought: I am always more interested in what IS possible with a specific gear (if it is worthwhile trying it) than what is NOT possible. Photos are made by what IS possible.

 

With a positive attitude one may discover the qualities of a system, with a negative it is generally only about being right.

 

Schöne Grüße aus Berlin

 

bernhard

 

Why playing beta-tester and paying a lot of money to do so?

 

Bernd

 

That´s it! I can´t afford to play Beta-Tester.

 

One example:

 

Yesterday I had the assignment to shoot the Gold-Ceremony for the Foo Fighters for Sony BMG.

The band got the awards for 100.000 sold CDs.

 

Edgar Berger (CEO of Sony BMG Germany) some other important people of the record company, Dave Grohl and his band, me and my Nikon D2X were in the room.

My D2X works without problems since March 2005, the same with the D200.

 

Do you think I would get an assignment again, if the M8 would stop to work in this moment or would produce a picture like this:

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m8-forum/37438-very-strange.html

???

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That´s it! I can´t afford to play Beta-Tester.

 

So just don't buy it, that's probably fine with everybody here.

 

Why the need to justify your decision every day again? I tell you why: Because you are not clear/ sure with your decision, otherwise you would just forget this forum.

 

If you would have worked and made money (in your job) during all the time you were critisizing the M8 here, you would almost have it for free by now and would probably quickly stop critisizing it.

 

But hey, it is a free country, I am sure at least one person here likes to hear you rant about the M8 a little longer, maybe 2 :-)

 

Bernie

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I too still have my 5D. Its a better tool for certain things: fast moving grandkids with flash; and a couple of weeks ago we had an excursion to the zoo. I didn;t want to load up with gear, so I took the 5D and the 70-300 DO; Bad available light also calls for the 5D's excellent noise suppression. So while my general preference is for the M8 and my general (unscientific) impression is that the M8 is superior in image quality, sometimes you just need a hammer instead of a screwdriver..

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Guest s.m.e.p.
So just don't buy it, that's probably fine with everybody here.

 

Why the need to justify your decision every day again? I tell you why: Because you are not clear/ sure with your decision, otherwise you would just forget this forum.

 

If you would have worked and made money (in your job) during all the time you were critisizing the M8 here, you would almost have it for free by now and would probably quickly stop critisizing it.

 

But hey, it is a free country, I am sure at least one person here likes to hear you rant about the M8 a little longer, maybe 2 :-)

 

Bernie

 

I love my Leica M-Lenses and would like to use them digital.

So I hope the next digital M will be better than the M8. If not I will sell my Leica M-Equipment because I have no fun and time to scan films.

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