lmans Posted February 24, 2023 Share #1 Posted February 24, 2023 Advertisement (gone after registration) I recently acquired a model 2 to go with my model 1… although I ran film through it, the film never advanced. ‘ I believe’ the reason is that after I slice some of the film off (20 notches or so), and then load onto spool… I need to make sure that the half sliced film section loads far enough to be clear of film canister itself ( felt lining) . If not, the film never advances as it has a tendency to become slightly crooked/ajar coming out of film canister and thus doesn’t advance, even though I turn the advance knob. True? Anyone have this issue? For some reason I have not run into this issue on my model 1 even though reloading mechanism is the same. Jim Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 24, 2023 Posted February 24, 2023 Hi lmans, Take a look here Barnacks 11 film load. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jerzy Posted February 24, 2023 Share #2 Posted February 24, 2023 vor 5 Stunden schrieb lmans: model 1 even though reloading mechanism is the same yes, they are the same.Unless your IA is very early, under serial 11xxx (and not modified). Early IA had sprocket drum with one row only (left photo) Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Probably you are doing it - after loading spanning the film with rewind knob. What is helpful as well is to remove the lens, set speed to Z, release and check if film sprockets are not visible 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Probably you are doing it - after loading spanning the film with rewind knob. What is helpful as well is to remove the lens, set speed to Z, release and check if film sprockets are not visible ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/368354-barnacks-11-film-load/?do=findComment&comment=4698919'>More sharing options...
dpitt Posted February 24, 2023 Share #3 Posted February 24, 2023 I read somewhere that the length of the cut that is needed varies between camera's, even of the same model. Maybe your 20 notches are not enough for the newest one. Try 24 or even more... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrogallol Posted February 24, 2023 Share #4 Posted February 24, 2023 If the full width film is still inside the cassette when you have attached the end to the takeup spool and loaded both spools into the camera then it sounds as if your reduced width leader is too long. This is a picture from the 1931 Vith Leica handbook showing the correct position of the full width film coming out of the cassette when you are loading it into the camera. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/368354-barnacks-11-film-load/?do=findComment&comment=4699292'>More sharing options...
lmans Posted February 24, 2023 Author Share #5 Posted February 24, 2023 (edited) Exactly… diagram appreciated. Jim Edited February 24, 2023 by lmans Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted February 24, 2023 Share #6 Posted February 24, 2023 I can understand why the film leader could be too long, because it wastes film, but not why that impacts on the film winding? Only perhaps if the length of the leader is so thin and floppy that it doesn't engage with the lower gear properly as you load it. Is the problem not the length of the leader you cut but the width of the cut, it only needs to miss the top gear teeth to work and no more. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmans Posted February 24, 2023 Author Share #7 Posted February 24, 2023 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) True…. From what I can see, if the trimmed end of film still resides in the film canister, it ‘catches’ and makes the film come out a bit askew, thus not aligning with gears. Hard to view since the back of camera doesn’t open up as in the M designs. I went thru what I thought was an entire 36 roll, and then some…., so reround. But it only rerounded a turn or two. I knew from that that the leader never catched on gears. After some experimenting I came to this conclusion thru partial visual, dry runs etc. just wanted to have others verify. I think that illustration really hit the mark; visually The key is knowing the length of the cut one makes to the film leader. Too much, and you have a problem like I had. I have heard anywhere from 15-20 notches in before you make that curved cut. I am thinking more like 15 notches as opposed to 20. When I get thru with this roll I will experiment with it. Edited February 24, 2023 by lmans 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomB_tx Posted February 25, 2023 Share #8 Posted February 25, 2023 The length of the leader sut is supposed to be enough that it goes just past the end of the pressure plate. That way the film only has to slip under the lower rail and under the first edge of the plate. Then the full width of the film slides in the film channel from the cassette end of the rails. If the leader isn't cut long enough part of the upper edge of the film can get caught by the top rail, and may not slip fully up in the film channel. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrogallol Posted February 25, 2023 Share #9 Posted February 25, 2023 When loading the film in the camera look down at the spools before you put the bottom back on and watch the spools turning as you start to wind, having first taken up the slack in the cassette. Then you can be sure the film is loaded ok. It is easy to do with a modern cassette but a bit more difficult if you are using a FILCA cassette as the mouth is closed until you put the bottom on the camera. Then again take up the slack in the feed cassette and check again that the rewind knob is turning fully as you wind. If it doesn’t seem to be turning fully wind another frame and if you are not sure because the rewind knob is only making a slight movement then rewind and start again. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anbaric Posted February 25, 2023 Share #10 Posted February 25, 2023 Even 70+ years later, we can RTFM. I load the Barnack cameras following the instructions in the IIIf manual, which I think are the clearest. See p27 and onwards here: https://www.cameramanuals.org/leica_pdf/leica_if_iif_iiif.pdf https://www.butkus.org/chinon/leica/leica_if_iif_iiif/leica_if_iif_iiif.htm Here is the trimmed film leader diagram from p29. Note that there are 23 unpaired sprocket holes. I don't think your cut leader is too long, though it might not be the right width. I also round off the corners as shown, and cut cleanly between sprocket holes (never across them). Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/368354-barnacks-11-film-load/?do=findComment&comment=4700592'>More sharing options...
lmans Posted February 25, 2023 Author Share #11 Posted February 25, 2023 Width… that diagram appears to hv a 60-40 ration in width. No one speaks to that although I suppose the tool they provided/sold, would naturally speak to. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted February 25, 2023 Share #12 Posted February 25, 2023 (edited) I cut mine by hand without a guide, a 10cm length to the sprocket hole where I start the cut. I cut to the same width as the existing leader on commercial rolled film, but just about 50:50 on home rolled film. Edited February 25, 2023 by LocalHero1953 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anbaric Posted February 25, 2023 Share #13 Posted February 25, 2023 Yes, while the leader needs to be longer than it is on modern uncut films, the width is already about right, so you can just 'extend' it. With the film fitted in an ABLON trimming guide, you can see the existing short leader section is only a little wider than you'd get by cutting precisely to the template: https://rrjphotography.wordpress.com/2016/05/04/leica-ablon-film-trimmer/ Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
willeica Posted February 26, 2023 Share #14 Posted February 26, 2023 12 hours ago, Anbaric said: Even 70+ years later, we can RTFM. I load the Barnack cameras following the instructions in the IIIf manual, which I think are the clearest. See p27 and onwards here: https://www.cameramanuals.org/leica_pdf/leica_if_iif_iiif.pdf https://www.butkus.org/chinon/leica/leica_if_iif_iiif/leica_if_iif_iiif.htm Here is the trimmed film leader diagram from p29. Note that there are 23 unpaired sprocket holes. I don't think your cut leader is too long, though it might not be the right width. I also round off the corners as shown, and cut cleanly between sprocket holes (never across them). Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! This is the way I do it. I always cut freehand with scissors, though. I also check that the sprockets are engaging with the film and that film is turning on the spool before closing the base. Also, make sure that the film cassette is fully pushed in. Then there is the check on the rewind knob which should be moving as the film is wound on. William 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jankap Posted February 26, 2023 Share #15 Posted February 26, 2023 Did not some users use a spacer? He does not use a Leica cassette. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anbaric Posted February 26, 2023 Share #16 Posted February 26, 2023 (edited) 17 minutes ago, jankap said: Did not some users use a spacer? He does not use a Leica cassette. I haven't had (or at least noticed) this problem, but some people have mentioned using washers or spacers to deal with sprocket holes intruding into the frame when using modern cassettes, which are slightly shorter than the FILCA: https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/77659-sprocket-holes-clipping-frame/#comments Edited February 26, 2023 by Anbaric Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrogallol Posted February 26, 2023 Share #17 Posted February 26, 2023 I don’t mind the sprocket holes showing, even some Cartier Bresson prints show them as he didn’t allow the prints to be cropped. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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