Tilt lens for the digital M?

[gbartdigi]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

I am looking to add a tilt lens to my setup. Are there any recommended solutions that would get me a tilt lens in the 35-50mm range? I'm looking at the 45mm PC-E with an F mount adapter but not sure if that's a good or bad solution. Also entertaining that it would just be easier to go with another camera platform.

Thanks!

[farnz]

As long as you can find appropriate adaptors for the lens to the M-mount you can use pretty much any T&S lens you wish - but you'd need to use the EVF of course and that's not the M camera line's strong point. 

My advice would be to use a SL2 or SL2-S rather than an M if you can and take advantage of their extraordinarily good EVFs.

Pete.

[SrMi]

53 minutes ago, farnz said:

As long as you can find appropriate adaptors for the lens to the M-mount you can use pretty much any T&S lens you wish - but you'd need to use the EVF of course and that's not the M camera line's strong point. 

My advice would be to use a SL2 or SL2-S rather than an M if you can and take advantage of their extraordinarily good EVFs.

Pete.

EVF on M11 is great and it tilts, which can make framing easier when using a low tripod.

[gbartdigi]

 

17 minutes ago, SrMi said:

EVF on M11 is great and it tilts, which can make framing easier when using a low tripod.

Ah yes, good call, I do have the adjustable angle M11 EVF. 

[MaticB]

Watch this video, untill the end!

 

[farnz]

3 hours ago, SrMi said:

EVF on M11 is great and it tilts, which can make framing easier when using a low tripod.

I haven't had the opportunity to try the M11 and Visoflex 2 so I'm not in a position to judge whether its increase in quality justifies its significantly larger price compared with the Visoflex 020 but I'm happy to presume that it does.  Does the EVF2's 3.68 million dots rival the SL2's EVF's 5.76 million dots?

I had thought that the OP was referring to acquiring a lens with perspective tilt and shift rather than simply mechanical tilt but I might have been mistaken.

Pete.

[SrMi]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

40 minutes ago, farnz said:

I haven't had the opportunity to try the M11 and Visoflex 2 so I'm not in a position to judge whether its increase in quality justifies its significantly larger price compared with the Visoflex 020 but I'm happy to presume that it does.  Does the EVF2's 3.68 million dots rival the SL2's EVF's 5.76 million dots?

I had thought that the OP was referring to acquiring a lens with perspective tilt and shift rather than simply mechanical tilt but I might have been mistaken.

Pete.

IMO, 3.7 MDot is good enough for critical work. After all, Fuji's primary MF camera (GFX100S) has EVF with a similar resolution.
Based on my experience with EVFs of varying resolutions (up to 9.4 MDot), the EVF resolution is only a somewhat relevant spec.

[gbartdigi]

45 minutes ago, farnz said:

I haven't had the opportunity to try the M11 and Visoflex 2 so I'm not in a position to judge whether its increase in quality justifies its significantly larger price compared with the Visoflex 020 but I'm happy to presume that it does.  Does the EVF2's 3.68 million dots rival the SL2's EVF's 5.76 million dots?

I had thought that the OP was referring to acquiring a lens with perspective tilt and shift rather than simply mechanical tilt but I might have been mistaken.

Pete.

Yes, thank you Pete, this is my intent; finding a tilt/shift lens solution. It will be used with the M11/Visoflex 2 combo.

[derleicaman]

I have several shift lenses, both the PC Super-Angulon 28 and the original 35. I also have the Nikon 35 PC lens. I also have the PC Micro Nikkor 85/2.8 for table top. They all require disciplined technique to use. I haven’t made the time to learn the 85 yet. The Super-Angulon PC lenses are pretty straightforward, as is the original PC Nikkor.

I will admit to being lazy and using the Perspective Correction in the camera on a fairly regular basis. 
The one thing you learn with using these lenses on the M10-P, R or M10M is that using the Viso or Live View with them eats up batteries quickly, so have several with you.

[ferfi]

Hi all!  
Does anybody try the Canon EF T/S lenses on Leica M? 
Afaik, Canon lenses need electronic control for the spring blades (Aperture). 
So does it mean, that the lenses are always open and can‘t be closed? 
 

Thank you for your answers!

[henning]

I've had and used many shift and tilt shift lenses over the past decades due to my architectural photography business, but most of them have now become irrelevant. For shift, the Nikkors, all 35mm and 28mm versions, are easy to use. I still have a 28/3.5 but don't use it on the M's, but have it mounted on a 28/220 Roundshot (film). I've had various Canon TS-E lenses from 17 to 90, but you really need an adapter that has electronics and batteries to allow aperture changes, otherwise you need a Canon body at hand to let you set an aperture before mounting it on a Leica; a cumbersome process. I've tried the Super-Angulon 28 for the R, but it has too much distortion at maximum shift to be useful. Same for the Pentax 28 and Olympus 24. These 3 are also not sharp enough when shifted to be recommended. There are many more shift options and some tilt options for 35mm and medium format cameras, but few new formulations for digital, and if you're not going for maximal quality lens shift is a bit pointless compared with the easy perspective corrections available in software. One of the better lenses that also doesn't cause too many problems is the Canon FD 35/2.8 TS. Optically it's one of the best older lenses, much better than the Nikons for example, plus it has a significantly larger image circle.

One of the main arguments against using shift lenses on digital cameras is the well known bugbear of light hitting the sensor at angles it wasn't designed for. Colour casts can be a big problem, without easy solutions. The shift and tilt-shift lenses vary in producing this colour shift, but the Canon FD 35 is one of the better behaved ones, in part because of the longer focal length.

[henning]

Since the Canon TS-E lenses are some of the most common, I should mention that the procedure to use them at other than wide open apertures is to put them on a Canon body, set the aperture to whatever you need and then press the shutter button to close down the aperture and shut the camera off during the exposure. Then dismount the lens and put it on your Leica. The aperture will remain closed down. I tried this with my 17 TS-E, the 24 vII and the older 90 and 5D mkII. Whether this would work with other lenses/bodies I don't know. In any case, the results were disappointing and I never used them this way for anything serious.

[Pintpot]

I've got the old EVF (for240 / 246) not found any problems using it on non coupled lenses or with Leica bellows 2, can still do 'focus peak' I'm aware it's not got the best megapixel count but it is bright & clear. 

As to shift lenses, do we really need them? so much can be done with software now, OK shoot me down if you will but I'd like to know what the forum thinks.

Cheers

[henning]

1 hour ago, Pintpot said:

As to shift lenses, do we really need them? so much can be done with software now, OK shoot me down if you will but I'd like to know what the forum thinks.

Cheers

Fully agree. As far as tilt lenses are concerned, things are more complicated. But on the other hand, I really hate it when I find I have a tilt lens that I thought wasn't.

[Pintpot]

15 minutes ago, henning said:

Fully agree. As far as tilt lenses are concerned, things are more complicated. But on the other hand, I really hate it when I find I have a tilt lens that I thought wasn't.

Yes I know the feeling!

[Bikie John]

7 hours ago, Pintpot said:

I've got the old EVF (for240 / 246) not found any problems using it on non coupled lenses or with Leica bellows 2, can still do 'focus peak' I'm aware it's not got the best megapixel count but it is bright & clear. 

As to shift lenses, do we really need them? so much can be done with software now, OK shoot me down if you will but I'd like to know what the forum thinks.

Cheers

Shift lenses can be used to avoid having to do perspective correction in post processing. Doing it later is all very well, but IMO it only works to a limited degree. I always seem to end up losing far more of the original image than I expect, with corresponding loss of image resolution. The perspective correction in the latest M and SL bodies helps, at least it shows how much of the frame you will lose, but it doesn't help with the loss of resolution.

Tilt on the other hand, which was the original question, can't really be simulated or substituted in post processing.

John

[Pintpot]

6 hours ago, Bikie John said:

 

Tilt on the other hand, which was the original question, can't really be simulated or substituted in post processing.

John

Thanks John, good to hear some informed perspective (pun not intended) on this. Never having used a shift lens on 35mm I wanted to see how people felt. 

Confession though, I do have a 5x4 field camera and obviously do use shift & swing on that.

Cheers

[gbartdigi]

Thanks all for the input, I am leaning towards just going with a different body and not trying to force the M11 to be a jack of all trades so to speak. What it does, it does really well. But this might not be a good fit.