If you could only have 1 CL/TL lens...

[MJB]

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For various reasons, I'm on the verge of selling my Leica gear.   I have all of the native TL lenses except for the 60mm macro, and I definitely don't want to hold onto all of them - it's a nice system, but I just don't think I need all of them.  I'm transitioning to a M43 system because, as compact as the CL is, and as great as the lenses are, they're just not as compact as I think they ought to be, and they offer no stabilization or anything.  And, frankly, Leica gear is very expensive, and I think I can get more bang for my buck elsewhere.

The CL, however, is a pretty special camera to me, and I sort of feel like hanging onto it.  I'm afraid that if I sell it, I will end up regretting it and end up hunting down another one for more money, lol.  But if I keep the CL, I'm going to need at least one lens to go along with it.  If you were in my situation, is there any one native lens you would absolutely keep?  The 35/1.4 Summilux is of course a favorite, but it's also fairly huge and heavy for a prime lens.  The 23/2.0 Summicron is a good option, too, and much more compact.  I've also thought about picking up maybe the Sigma 24/3.5, as a compact lens in a classic reportage focal length with a working aperture ring sounds like an awesome companion for the CL, but is f/3.5 too slow?

Basically, I don't want to keep my whole CL/TL system, but I am attached to the CL enough that I think it's worth keeping the body and one L-mount lens so that I can shoot it from time to time.  If you were me, what would be your top choice if you could only pair one lens with the CL?

[Le Chef]

I would find it nigh on impossible to give up the TL 11-23, and even if I don’t use it as often as I should, the TL 55-135.

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[huwm]

I came from Olympus EM1 and 2 to CL and TL2 some years back, eventually acquiring all the lenses bar the macro also.

I kept the CL which I really loved, a Sigma 30mm f1.4 and a Lumix 70-300 to accompany the Q2 I picked up with the proceeds of my lens sale.

Having dropped the CL and Panasonic in the River Wye I replaced it with an S5 and then before you know it I've added an SL2 and huge Art lenses.

So I've headed in the opposite direction but I do remember how good the Olympus m43 kit was and presumably still is and don't feel you will find it in any way lacking image  quality wise.

My favourite CL lens may actually have been the 11-23 but the 23 spent most time on the camera.

Absolute favourite camera is the Q2, despite how much I enjoy messing with my other toys.

Why not get one and then ignore the GAS, which I have unfortunately been unable to do.

[Rob lotus]

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The TL2 and 23m I bought hardly used for £1600 2nd hand. Yes it will depreciate but the interface and IQ are amazing and frankly It’s unlikley something of this quality and size will be built again, certainly not by Leica. . Well I added the TL 55 135 the viso and some snap on covers and flash, all cheap compared to retail .  All fit in a small Bellingham bag and weigh peanuts . I only take what I want and the camera bag is waterproof but also have waterproof cover  bag if required . This camera has been with me for several years always available  and is a true street , landscape,  portrait , low light , dark , travel etc marvel . It gets admiring glances from all or can be discrete fired from the screen . Wi fi us b c remote control app , focus aid with manual 50, ooo iso , fast shutter , etc.  why would I sell the camera  it will take shots as good as I ever am .  
what’s missing , nothing , as  on special days on specific sites I have my 7D2 and sigma 150 600, for birds , but even then the TL2 comes along for that magic moment if it appears. 

Best gear , well the TL and these lenses, you only need something in addition if you’re into bird photography specialisation. Ha the bulkiest thing is Leica strap   !

 

 

Edited February 10, 2023 by Rob lotus

[JayBird]

As far as the TL lenses, the 11-23 spends the most time on my CL. But I also use some M mount on it too

[NigelG]

I generally keep the 11-23 on my TL2 with the Visoflex as a hiking/tourist cam, or pair it with an M+50 Lux ASPH. 

As an Architect I'm mainly shooting streetscapes/buildings or landscapes when hiking /climbing so YMMV.

IMHO the TL2 + 11-23 + visoflex is often a lot easier than my Ms + my 16 Hologon/ 21 SEM / 24 Elmar-M when i'm travelling with my family (who don't really appreciate a "hold on I'm just changing lenses!" issue when we're on a tour...

[MJB]

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Thanks for your responses so far!

I do love the 11-23, but I'm not sure it's the one I would keep out of the set.  I find the distortion to be too extreme on the wide end, often requiring perspective correction in post, especially for architecture.  But it's also one of the bigger and heavier lenses in the system.  Another consideration is that it will probably fetch more in resale than many of the other lenses.

I'm thinking the 23/2 might be the best all-rounder for me, plus my copy has a small paint chip which will probably tank its value.  I may keep the 18/2.8 as well, because I just don't think I'll get much for it, and it's such a small lens, pretty cool design.

I do have a TL2 as well that I picked up on fire sale pricing.  I enjoy that camera but feel that it becomes somewhat clunky to carry with the Visoflex, which I think is necessary (to me) for the most enjoyable use.

I've recently picked up a couple of Olympus cameras, a PEN-F and E-M5 III. The cameras are similarly-sized to the CL, a bit smaller in fact.  The PEN-F is built every bit as good as a Leica, IMO.  The E-M5, though plastic, does not feel cheap at all and is weather-sealed, it feels quite rugged.  The E-M5 blows the CL (and even my SL) out of the water in terms of autofocusing ability and the IBIS is surreal, class-leading apparently (when new).  I've enjoyed the CL very much despite some of its technological shortcomings, and I think its a real shooter's camera, a delight to use really.  But I'm seeing how this little feature-packed Oly could really excel as a travel and street-oriented machine.  What I find really amazing is the lenses, though.  I've started to acquire some of the compact "budget" primes (Olympus makes smaller/cheaper f/1.8 primes and larger f/1.2 "PRO" primes), and they are tiny!  They're seriously the size of small M-mount lenses, and again, don't feel cheap in the hand at all.  This is where I think the M43 system gains a serious upper hand in terms of compactness and lightness, and has convinced me that I just don't need to accept the size and weight penalty of the 35/1.4 and TL zooms, much as I love them all.

In December, I spent a couple of weeks in Vietnam shooting the CL, TL2, plus all the lenses - amazingly I was able to pack it all down into a sling bag, but I did feel overloaded (mind you, I wasn't carrying everything at all times - most of the gear stayed in the hotel and I would select a smaller subset for the days' shooting to be carried in a smaller Domke F-5XB).  I'm glad I took all that kit because I used every bit of it at different times, but it would've been nicer to have an even more compact system.  And it was kind of crazy when I did the math and realized the combined value I had in that one sling bag.

And, in a way, that may end up being the last straw for me.  Leica gear is just way too expensive.  We kind of get used to it after a while, but I think if you take a really objective look at it, the price to performance just isn't there.  I just bought 6 Olympus lenses for less than one of my TL lenses cost me!  And I think with the Oly stuff I won't feel like I need to carry an insurance policy for it, and won't sweat the occasional ding or chip as much - it feels kind of liberating.  Add to that the fact that Leica abruptly abandoned APS-C, and my only way forward with the brand is with an even more expensive system that doesn't suit my needs as well - I don't know, all of this stuff has been sort of nagging at me and just came to a head, I suppose.

Edited February 11, 2023 by MJB

[vankempf]

I would keep the 23/2. It is a lens that sees the world as I see it. 

[Steven Lane]

It would be the 35 1.4 for me. I loved this lens when it came out and still love using it. Even though I have been moving gradually into the SL system, it is very unlikely I will part with it.

[DenverSteve]

For me, without a doubt, it's the 18-56.  That gives a 27-84mm equivalent which covers most of what I shoot.  Combine that with the Q2, for wider, or A7c with 24-105 (or M11 w/ 75) and everything is covered.  

Edited February 11, 2023 by DenverSteve

[tommonego@gmail.com]

The 11-23 is my favorite CL/TL lens, but it is too slow especially in the 16-23 range whereI use it the most, so I also have my 23 f2 which is on the camera more. I have a 35 pre asph Summilux, which is a great size on the CL. But if I really had to drop down to one (or two lenses) it would be the 23 first and a 50ish lens. I have 2 a 50 V1 Sumicron and a 55 f1.4 7 Artisans, the latter is an L mount, is very good and focuses to 1 ft. The Summicron stays with my M cameras generally.

[maidenfan84]

I’ve never been a zoom user, primes only for me. The Summicron 23mm f2 has been glued on my TL2 since the day I bought them. I’ve had no reason to think about putting a different lens on, this one does it all for my needs. IQ is top notch and it’s compact enough to not be a nuisance or difficult to use. 

[rtai]

I don’t own any TL gear but the 11-23mm would be the only lens I need.

[bandrews]

Going to be an unpopular opinion but I love the 18mm. It is the smallest you can make the CL (and closest in size to the X2) with a TL lens so makes it super easy to slip into a coat pocket. That makes it my perfect "take anywhere point and shoot". Any other times if I need a longer lens I'll switch to the M10P or SL2S. The 23mm isn't that much bigger but just alters the dimensions enough to make it not quite as compact.

[MJB]

Thanks for all the input.  This is a tough choice - I can see good arguments for the 18/2.8, 23/2, and the 35/1.4 - the latter especially being probably my most used lens.  

This is a tough choice, because the more I think about it, the more I want to keep all of them.  This system has done good work for me.  But on the other hand, I don't want to be overly sentimental about it and just hoard gear if I'm not going to continue using it regularly.  I think I'll sit on the decision for another week or two.

I'll be spending the upcoming long weekend in Tokyo, and I think I'll just pack an Olympus M4/3 kit and see how it suits me - both in terms of the shooting experience, as well as the ultimate image output.  If all goes very well, I may be tempted to just get rid of the CL stuff altogether, assuming I can get a good enough price for it.

If there are any glaring deficiencies with the Oly system, then I guess I'll just keep going with the CL.  Although I did trial a GX9 early last year, and was content with the image quality, even at night, and the IBIS was nice.  I didn't really get on with the GX9 ergonomics and EVF as well as with the CL, and I was shooting a somewhat large 12-60 zoom lens primarily, so there was no compelling advantage in terms of size or weight.  The Oly f/1.8 primes are an entirely different story.

[Rick in CO]

What kind of photography are you into?  For a travel or general carry-around camera, if one had to pick a single lens for the CL/TL it would be the Sigma 18-50mm f2.8 zoom lens.        If for people/street photography or portraiture the 35mm f1.4 Summilux would get my vote.  The 11-23mm would be it for interiors or landscapes.

[thatkatmat]

For me it's an easy choice if we're talking IQ. The 35 Summilux. Amazingly sharp, rich Leica colors, beautiful bokeh that can tame the busiest of back grounds. 

[Dopaco]

Going from a Leica digital camera like Cl or TL to a brand other than Leica is more difficult than vice versa.

My main camera now is the Leica TL 2, which I plan to have with me for a long time, it's giving me everything I need and then some. Its menus are based on moving around the screen in a similar way to the new iPhones, at first it was difficult for me and I had to move slowly, now I feel comfortable they are easy and fast.

I can't imagine having a CL or TL2, only 1 lens but if I wanted it to be like a Leica Q, I would put the lens that I have Elmarit 18mm F2.8 and for macros ELPRO E52 14125, so I would have a Leica Q, very light. For me it would be superior to the Leica Q for always having the possibility of attaching other objectives.

[Torpille]

For the cl, I see things in this form.

A compact camera that fits in a pocket? the tl 18mm.

The best image quality that captures the Leica magic? the TL 35mm 

The versatile alternative to larger systems, the TL 18-56mm

For 35mm addicts, the TL 23mm offers a beautiful summicron rendering.

But the cl is a platform that offers the choice. Limiting yourself to one lens is a possibility but it opens the door to other cameras

For example, if the 28mm is your choice, the q remains above in quality but it is bigger.

If one lens is enough for you a M + 35/50 can be a good option. This is my choice with a 35mm.

Nevertheless the cl is a timeless design icon capable of making great images for years.

And everyone has the ability to use it as they see fit.

 

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[MJB]

Well, I spent the past holiday weekend in Tokyo exclusively shooting my Olympus kit, and have had several days to think about things as well as start to process some images, and have come to the conclusion to sell my entire CL/TL kit, bodies and all.

In some ways, it was an easy decision.  Just packing for the trip it was amazing how much lighter and more compact everything was.  I think I mentioned that I usually pack a Domke F-5XB for day use, but then use a larger bag in order to fit everything for the plane ride.  Well, with this arrangement I was able to ditch the larger bag, and just comfortably fit everything into the Domke.  And honestly, I overpacked just because I wanted to try all of my new lenses - I could certainly pack even lighter and more efficiently.  I was even able to pack the tiny FL-LM3 flash, which is weather-sealed, employs a tilt/swivel head, and is powered by the camera - brilliant little piece of engineering, and I've been really meaning to incorporate some daylight fill flash into my work.  Of course, I forgot to use it, because I pretty much NEVER carried my Leica SF 26 (plus batteries!) and so have not been in the habit of reaching for a flash.

In use, the E-M5 III is evidently more responsive than the CL.  The AF is just better and much faster.  The tiny lenses made for a very easy-to-carry and discreet street shooter.  The IBIS is unreal, if I'm honest - I used to think this was a bit of a gimmick limited to handheld nightscapes, but honestly I feel like I'm getting sharper images at even marginally "safe" shutter speeds like 1/60 or 1/125.  I can handhold the CL pretty reliably down to 1/15 if I use good technique, but even then my success rate is probably only around 50%, and with quicker "grab" shots if I'm below 1/125 or even 1/250 I think a non-stabilized sensor could suffer slightly from camera shake.  In any event, it's definitely a nice feature, and Olympus' implementation is said to be among the best (if not THE best).

The CL's EVF is definitely better, the menus are more elegant and intuitive, and it certainly feels more premium overall.  But as much as I love the Summilux-TL 35/1.4 (probably my most used lens, always been a "nifty fifty" shooter), I have to wonder why I'm carrying around such a beast when there exist so many compact 50mm-equivalent lenses that are also very good.

But none of this would matter if it wasn't for the image quality.  And I can say that the results I'm getting seem to be suffering in no way due to the sensor-size disadvantage.  In fact, I can say that there is something about them that I'm actually liking more than what I've been able to wring out of the CL.  My processing workflow is exactly the same, but the Olympus images seem to have a little bit more clarity, sharpness, and punch - it's difficult to say how this could be.  Maybe the IBIS is contributing subtly.  Maybe I just enjoy the rendering of the Zuiko lenses (they seem excellent, by the way, for the most part).  Whatever it is, I certainly don't think the smaller M4/3 sensor is returning inferior images - mind you, my output is pretty much limited to my Flickr and Instagram pages, but I have no doubt I could get very good prints from these, up to a point.

Anyway, my intent is not to knock the CL, or to proselytize and try to convert anyone.  I have very much enjoyed owning and using the CL, and the entire system, really.  It's just that I honestly feel like this Olympus kit might actually be a better fit for my purposes, I don't really feel like I'm losing anything, and the system is just SO much more affordable in general.  The fact that I didn't miss the CL a single time over the weekend was sort of telling, along with spending some time processing the images and not noticing any decline in quality.  I will probably miss the CL from time to time once its gone, but its hard to justify keeping over $10,000 worth of camera gear in the closet just for nostalgia.