Delayed release of shutter on IIIg

[qqphot]

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Would anyone like to speculate how or why a IIIg might release the shutter 1/4 sec or so late after the button is pressed, but *only* when film is loaded? 

Exposures are absolutely consistent and correct regardless (incl flash sync), but sometimes you press the button and there's a bit of a catch before it fires. Never happens without film loaded. I find this puzzling.  It's merely an inconvenience but I'm curious!

I've had poor results with sending cameras to CLA specialists for specific problems, sad to say.

[dpitt]

2 hours ago, qqphot said:

I've had poor results with sending cameras to CLA specialists for specific problems, sad to say.

If you do not get a solution... Did you try Will van Manen? I had a few 'hopeless' cases which were solved by him without breaking a sweat. Be prepared for a longish return time, he has a large backlog and is having health issues now. Asking for a quote will not hurt.

Edited February 5, 2023 by dpitt

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[qqphot]

2 hours ago, dpitt said:

If you do not get a solution... Did you try Will van Manen? I had a few 'hopeless' cases which were solved by him without breaking a sweat. Be prepared for a longish return time, he has a large backlog and is having health issues now. Asking for a quote will not hurt.

I feel like all the competent repairers have huge backlogs and some are slipping with regard to the quality of their work. I'm at the point where aside from basic maintenance I can do myself, I will pass a camera on and replace it with a recently serviced one when problems show themselves. It's sad to do it, but I'm not collecting anything rare and I just want working cameras, which isn't possible when any repair takes six months to several years.

[jerzy]

vor 5 Stunden schrieb qqphot:

but sometimes you press the button and there's a bit of a catch before it fires

your remark is pointing into direction of misaligned release button. Firstly a bit of explanation. In  order to make release smoother, starting with IIIc Leica has 2 holding points for shutter when spanned. Left photo shows sprocket drum (1), orange line indicates release shaft that is running inside. In the upper part sprocket drum is  coupled with wind knob. The lower sprocket wheel has a pin (not visible on the photo), it hooks against a pin on the silver wheel (2). This silver wheel is coupled with the shutter. So if you wind you will rotate sprocket drum and span the shutter. Right photo shows bottom of the camera when shutter spanned. Notice the anchor that holds the disc (this belongs to the shutter drum, opening curtain). So we have 2 point that hold the shutter when spanned: pins on the  wheel (2) and anchor. When releasing both need to free up the shutter, but the sequence has to be obeyed - this is the adjustment. When you press release the release shaft does 2 things: it moves silver wheel (2) down and is pushing leaf spring down. Leaf spring (edge above the silver round circle - release shaft) is pushing away the anchor moving it into directions as arrows show until it will release the disc. Remember, at the same time wheel (2) is being pushed down and unhooks from the sprocket drum. Sequence of releasing shall be that firstly wheel 2 unhooks and just a bit later the anchor releases the shutter. 

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If you have feeler gauge you may check it as shown on the photo below

Adjustment is being done by either repositioning the leaf spring, or, if this is not enough, by bending the anchor.
It is rather critical adjustment, be careful not to make it worse. In your case now I believe that anchor releases first and wheel 2 later.
And now how it connects to "with and without film". This is just my speculation. When the film is in, after winding, the  friction of the film may pull the sprocket drum a bit back taking the tensions between two pins  (sprocket drum and wheel 2) away and shutter works properly.

Edited February 5, 2023 by jerzy

[qqphot]

8 hours ago, jerzy said:

your remark is pointing into direction of misaligned release button. Firstly a bit of explanation. In  order to make release smoother, starting with IIIc Leica has 2 holding points for shutter when spanned. Left photo shows sprocket drum (1), orange line indicates release shaft that is running inside. In the upper part sprocket drum is  coupled with wind knob. The lower sprocket wheel has a pin (not visible on the photo), it hooks against a pin on the silver wheel (2). This silver wheel is coupled with the shutter. So if you wind you will rotate sprocket drum and span the shutter. Right photo shows bottom of the camera when shutter spanned. Notice the anchor that holds the disc (this belongs to the shutter drum, opening curtain). So we have 2 point that hold the shutter when spanned: pins on the  wheel (2) and anchor. When releasing both need to free up the shutter, but the sequence has to be obeyed - this is the adjustment. When you press release the release shaft does 2 things: it moves silver wheel (2) down and is pushing leaf spring down. Leaf spring (edge above the silver round circle - release shaft) is pushing away the anchor moving it into directions as arrows show until it will release the disc. Remember, at the same time wheel (2) is being pushed down and unhooks from the sprocket drum. Sequence of releasing shall be that firstly wheel 2 unhooks and just a bit later the anchor releases the shutter. 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

If you have feeler gauge you may check it as shown on the photo below

Adjustment is being done by either repositioning the leaf spring, or, if this is not enough, by bending the anchor.
It is rather critical adjustment, be careful not to make it worse. In your case now I believe that anchor releases first and wheel 2 later.
And now how it connects to "with and without film". This is just my speculation. When the film is in, after winding, the  friction of the film may pull the sprocket drum a bit back taking the tensions between two pins  (sprocket drum and wheel 2) away and shutter works properly.

Jerzy, your replies to questions like this are always so informative and educational that sometimes I search your posts just to find more of them, even for problems I don't have.  This looks like something easy to investigate, at least, and I'll be careful if I try to adjust anything.

[qqphot]

Well, I've used feeler gauges and found the release button spacing to be just right; and I've carefully tried several positions of the leaf spring after scribing the original position so I could return it to where it was - it's still intermittently firing late.

 My conclusion is "there's something else going on."  --  most of the time, the pins on the sprocket wheel release first, then the shutter drum anchor releases.

But when there's film in it, and when the camera is cold or has been sitting for a bit, the shutter releases late, and because of this sensitivity to temperature and recent use, I suspect there is a problem with old lubrication or crud somewhere.  But where?   This happens when there is film loaded, and when its been sitting cocked for a while, and moreso when it's cold.

The person I got the camera from said it was serviced by Y Ye in 2021, but, well, that doesn't necessarily mean too much.