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Question on M4 MOT


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I have an M4 MOT and the SN places it as a 1970 model.   I know many of these went to the US Navy and mine has the letters  “DTNSRDC” hand engraved on the edge of the top plate just above the film door.  Anyone know if these are Navy markings or something else?

Next question, does having new leather put on this impact the value negatively?  The vulcanite on this is about 1/3 gone.  I’d like to use the camera and would enjoy it more with new leather.

 

Scott

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It stands for:  "David W. Taylor Naval Ship Research and Development Center"   It was in Bethesda MD in the 1960s through the 1970s.  I don't know much else about it.  It has undoubtedly been absorbed by some other Navy command with a different acronym.

That is in fact a Navy M4 MOT.   I was issued an M4 MOT kit at the Fleet Air Photo Lab at Moffett Field, CA in 1974/75.   We had a half-dozen of those kits available.  I have a Leicaflex SL2 that is also a Navy veteran that I just had Don Goldberg overhaul and refurbish.

I'm not a collector, per se... so I can't answer your question about the value with any authority, but the camera was built to take photos, not be a shelf queen.  I'd say recover it and go make photos!   

Edited by hepcat
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48 minutes ago, hepcat said:

It stands for:  "David W. Taylor Naval Ship Research and Development Center"   It was in Bethesda MD in the 1960s through the 1970s.  I don't know much else about it.  It has undoubtedly been absorbed by some other Navy command with a different acronym.

That is in fact a Navy M4 MOT.   I was issued an M4 MOT kit at the Fleet Air Photo Lab at Moffett Field, CA in 1974/75.   We had a half-dozen of those kits available.  I have a Leicaflex SL2 that is also a Navy veteran that I just had Don Goldberg overhaul and refurbish.

I'm not a collector, per se... so I can't answer your question about the value with any authority, but the camera was built to take photos, not be a shelf queen.  I'd say recover it and go make photos!   

That is very helpful!  Thank you.  I agree with you on the recover.  I intend to use it and enjoy it.

Scott

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18 minutes ago, Scott_Allen said:

That is very helpful!  Thank you.  I agree with you on the recover.  I intend to use it and enjoy it.

Scott

I did a little more poking around.  It may still be active.  Here's a photo from 1984

https://picryl.com/media/an-aerial-view-of-the-david-w-taylor-naval-ship-research-and-development-center-f612dd

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48 minutes ago, Scott_Allen said:

I intend to use it and enjoy it.

I bought my M2Mot from a Leica Shop in "excellent condition".  I bought my motor from a trusted seller on E-bay.  I couldn't even get them to mount together.  I sent them off to Don Goldberg because his father designed and developed this camera / motor system.  The motor only needed a clean and lube.  The body required a 3/4 overhaul.  From the looks of your M4Mot I think you would be best served servicing the camera before using it.

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56 minutes ago, zeitz said:

I bought my M2Mot from a Leica Shop in "excellent condition".  I bought my motor from a trusted seller on E-bay.  I couldn't even get them to mount together.  I sent them off to Don Goldberg because his father designed and developed this camera / motor system.  The motor only needed a clean and lube.  The body required a 3/4 overhaul.  From the looks of your M4Mot I think you would be best served servicing the camera before using it.

I agree with you.  It’s heading out tomorrow to Ye for a CLA and recover.

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IMHO there is no question...get it recovered, or do it yourself (it is an easy job) and use it like it was new. You wouldn't want to take your wife/girlfriend out to a fancy restaurant dressed in rags, so why would you not recover it? In my experiences, I really enjoyed using my cameras even more after they were recovered...it felt great having a "beauty" to accompany me!

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Alan Starkie of Cameraworks-UK says that 'Old flaking vulcanite is toxic for your camera' so it's not just ease of use and aesthetics, you're protecting your camera by removing it. But you've got a nice black paint M4 which might be worth a bit so documenting what you did is worth your trouble.

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I think it's because old flaking vulcanite lets moisture underneath it, not that it's a hazardous substance and needs roping off.

If you want to use the camera get it recovered, but do your research and choose the closest match to the original. But if you want to sell it to a collector they'll pay for originality above a new covering.

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Well Starkie is using hyperbole because obviously M cameras are not alive so they can't be poisoned. In addition to the issue of moisture, if the vulcanite is crumbling and the camera is being used then there is the potential for small fragments of crumbling vulcanite to get transferred from your fingers into the camera and then it's a matter of time before it finds its way into the gears of the machine. That would not be ideal.

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On 1/31/2023 at 12:50 PM, Scott_Allen said:

Thanks, please tell me more.  Are you saying that you think a recover is not something you’d suggest doing?

No I personally think that it must be recovered, because it will not stop loosing piece of vulcanite remaining.
Just take a picture to justify it and keep it in archive just in case of selling or trading discussion.

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Years ago, at a fair in Germany, I witnessed the display of a new sealed M4 Mot still wrapped, sold by a famous dealer to an important collector. There was also the motor, which seemed to be, according to the official dealer, the only known one still totally sealed (and stayed that way, as far as I know). The price ? At the time It was around 40K...

Here some modest photos from my archive:

 

 

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