Vonnie Posted January 23, 2023 Share #1 Posted January 23, 2023 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi everyone Im just about to invest in my first Leica. I wondered which be would be better for long exposure city & sea scapes. I’d be interested to hear your views. Thanks Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 23, 2023 Posted January 23, 2023 Hi Vonnie, Take a look here M10-R or M11 for long exposure. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
ianforber Posted January 23, 2023 Share #2 Posted January 23, 2023 I chose the M11 in part because you can turn off the long exposure noise reduction - the taking of a separate dark frame. I don’t have a M10-R so can’t be sure whether that’s possible for that camera. Very happy with the M11 long exposures, both with and without LENR. Example below, albeit only 30secs. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/362957-m10-r-or-m11-for-long-exposure/?do=findComment&comment=4655366'>More sharing options...
hmzimelka Posted January 23, 2023 Share #3 Posted January 23, 2023 The M11 does really well for long exposures, but be weary that the lens mount can leak light. I thought my camera was defective at first but it isn't. Confirmed by users on the forum and trying out other cameras myself. I use a hair band around the lens, stretched around the lens mount, and this prevent this light leak. My worst offender is the Summicron-M 50mm V, but the rest of my Voigtlander lenses are mostly OK. Keep in mind this was with a 10 stop filter and sometimes with an additional polariser attached. While the image below holds zero artistic merit, it's a 900sec exposure without LENR. Very few hot pixels. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/362957-m10-r-or-m11-for-long-exposure/?do=findComment&comment=4655396'>More sharing options...
hmzimelka Posted January 23, 2023 Share #4 Posted January 23, 2023 The scrunchy around the mount... Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! The image... 120 seconds. 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! The image... 120 seconds. ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/362957-m10-r-or-m11-for-long-exposure/?do=findComment&comment=4655402'>More sharing options...
Vonnie Posted January 23, 2023 Author Share #5 Posted January 23, 2023 59 minutes ago, ianforber said: I chose the M11 in part because you can turn off the long exposure noise reduction - the taking of a separate dark frame. I don’t have a M10-R so can’t be sure whether that’s possible for that camera. Very happy with the M11 long exposures, both with and without LENR. Example below, albeit only 30secs. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Stunning! Thanks Ian, really appreciate it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vonnie Posted January 23, 2023 Author Share #6 Posted January 23, 2023 15 minutes ago, hmzimelka said: The M11 does really well for long exposures, but be weary that the lens mount can leak light. I thought my camera was defective at first but it isn't. Confirmed by users on the forum and trying out other cameras myself. I use a hair band around the lens, stretched around the lens mount, and this prevent this light leak. My worst offender is the Summicron-M 50mm V, but the rest of my Voigtlander lenses are mostly OK. Keep in mind this was with a 10 stop filter and sometimes with an additional polariser attached. While the image below holds zero artistic merit, it's a 900sec exposure without LENR. Very few hot pixels. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! That’s amazing. Thank you so much for your input. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmzimelka Posted January 23, 2023 Share #7 Posted January 23, 2023 Advertisement (gone after registration) 6 minutes ago, Vonnie said: That’s amazing. Thank you so much for your input. FYI my post regarding the concerns with light leaks... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olaf_ZG Posted January 23, 2023 Share #8 Posted January 23, 2023 The m11 is the only m which can turn LENR off. Even Q or SL don’t have this function. That said, I am not sure how images on Leica look like without LENR. I used to shoot long exposure (up to 16minutes during the day) with my GFX with good results. However, since I sold it, the SL needs to do this job. When summer comes, I will start testing. somehow, I hope the SL3 sensor will be based on the m11, cause then LENR can be switched off most probably. Lightleaks as described above will be there, so you need to care about this. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Franka373 Posted January 23, 2023 Share #9 Posted January 23, 2023 3 hours ago, hmzimelka said: The scrunchy around the mount... Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! The image... 120 seconds. Nice photo. May I ask what filters you are using? Thanks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vonnie Posted January 23, 2023 Author Share #10 Posted January 23, 2023 3 hours ago, hmzimelka said: FYI my post regarding the concerns with light leaks... Thanks. I'm surprised Leica hasn't addressed this issue. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vonnie Posted January 23, 2023 Author Share #11 Posted January 23, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, Olaf_ZG said: The m11 is the only m which can turn LENR off. Even Q or SL don’t have this function. That said, I am not sure how images on Leica look like without LENR. I used to shoot long exposure (up to 16minutes during the day) with my GFX with good results. However, since I sold it, the SL needs to do this job. When summer comes, I will start testing. somehow, I hope the SL3 sensor will be based on the m11, cause then LENR can be switched off most probably. Lightleaks as described above will be there, so you need to care about this. Thanks Olaf, I currently have a GFX. I want to buy a Leica M for travel and street photography. Can I ask you why you chose to sell the Fuji and from your experience do you prefer the Leica SLs? Edited January 23, 2023 by Vonnie Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted January 23, 2023 Share #12 Posted January 23, 2023 Just to fly the M10-R flag! We had some recent cold weather, it's not often snow stays around for several days down to the tideline like this. Not being able to cancel lenr is a minus point for the M10-R along with the battery life not being it's strong point either, especially in cold weather. M11 has the clear advantage here but in the M10-R's favour, the lenr is nicely tuned and does not degrade the image. Whether a Leica M10-R or M11 is a good camera or not for long exposures depends largely on your own idea of what a long exposure is and how much of that kind of photography you intend to do. For myself, a Leica M is not the right camera for frequent long exposure work and a long exposure can be anything from five minutes to an hour or more. That's way beyond the capability of a Leica M and when I will use a Nikon dslr. All that said, focusing and composing for a long exposure can be done with strong or multiple nd filters constantly attached to the lens which makes a rangefinder camera more convenient than a dslr or mirrorless camera, especially in low light levels. Being able to avoid removing and replacing nd filters with cold fingers is a definite bonus when using a Leica M! Eilean Glas Lighthouse on Scalpay, Shiant Islands beyond. M10-R BP 28mm summicron safari edition 10-stop nd 100iso, 19 secs @f4 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 6 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/362957-m10-r-or-m11-for-long-exposure/?do=findComment&comment=4655722'>More sharing options...
hmzimelka Posted January 24, 2023 Share #13 Posted January 24, 2023 2 hours ago, Franka373 said: Nice photo. May I ask what filters you are using? Thanks. Thanks. It was a Heliopan ND 3.0 (10 Stop) + Heliopan Circular Polariser. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olaf_ZG Posted January 24, 2023 Share #14 Posted January 24, 2023 9 hours ago, Vonnie said: Thanks Olaf, I currently have a GFX. I want to buy a Leica M for travel and street photography. Can I ask you why you chose to sell the Fuji and from your experience do you prefer the Leica SLs? The GFX is a great system. Both in quality as in size. I bought the SL as I could use m lenses on it, and I stopped using the GFX, except for long exposure. As I prefer to have one system I decided too switch fully to Leica. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vonnie Posted January 24, 2023 Author Share #15 Posted January 24, 2023 (edited) 8 hours ago, Ouroboros said: Just to fly the M10-R flag! We had some recent cold weather, it's not often snow stays around for several days down to the tideline like this. Not being able to cancel lenr is a minus point for the M10-R along with the battery life not being it's strong point either, especially in cold weather. M11 has the clear advantage here but in the M10-R's favour, the lenr is nicely tuned and does not degrade the image. Whether a Leica M10-R or M11 is a good camera or not for long exposures depends largely on your own idea of what a long exposure is and how much of that kind of photography you intend to do. For myself, a Leica M is not the right camera for frequent long exposure work and a long exposure can be anything from five minutes to an hour or more. That's way beyond the capability of a Leica M and when I will use a Nikon dslr. All that said, focusing and composing for a long exposure can be done with strong or multiple nd filters constantly attached to the lens which makes a rangefinder camera more convenient than a dslr or mirrorless camera, especially in low light levels. Being able to avoid removing and replacing nd filters with cold fingers is a definite bonus when using a Leica M! Eilean Glas Lighthouse on Scalpay, Shiant Islands beyond. M10-R BP 28mm summicron safari edition 10-stop nd 100iso, 19 secs @f4 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Love this! That's the kind of long exposure I enjoy. It's really important that I can take these kind of photographs when I'm travelling. I have a GFX and a Canon 5d mk iv but would like something a little more discreet and lightweight for travel. If you had to buy your first Leica now would you still go with the M10-r? Edited January 24, 2023 by Vonnie 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vonnie Posted January 24, 2023 Author Share #16 Posted January 24, 2023 12 minutes ago, Olaf_ZG said: The GFX is a great system. Both in quality as in size. I bought the SL as I could use m lenses on it, and I stopped using the GFX, except for long exposure. As I prefer to have one system I decided too switch fully to Leica. 12 minutes ago, Olaf_ZG said: The GFX is a great system. Both in quality as in size. I bought the SL as I could use m lenses on it, and I stopped using the GFX, except for long exposure. As I prefer to have one system I decided too switch fully to Leica. Thanks Olaf! If I enjoy the m camera as much as I expect I may be tempted to switch from the Fuji to the SLR2. Uk based photographer Les Forrester does a lot of Long Exposure on an SLR2 and his images are amazing so I'm sure the SL won't disappoint. I'd love to hear how the testing goes after the summer! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olaf_ZG Posted January 24, 2023 Share #17 Posted January 24, 2023 @Vonniethanks for the mentioning Les, did not know about him, but he has great work! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted January 24, 2023 Share #18 Posted January 24, 2023 2 hours ago, Vonnie said: Love this! That's the kind of long exposure I enjoy. It's really important that I can take these kind of photographs when I'm travelling. I have a GFX and a Canon 5d mk iv but would like something a little more discreet and lightweight for travel. If you had to buy your first Leica now would you still go with the M10-r? Thanks! I could have bought an M11, it had just been released at the time I bought my M10-R and I had thought carefully about which one to buy before shelling out £7.4K. There are operational aspects I dislike about the M11, just as there are some irritations for me with the M10-R, but overall the looks (black paint), handling, shutter sound and weight of the M10-R are much closer to my MP which I bought in 2006 and which has travelled extensively with me. Side by side, my MP and M10-R are virtually identical. I don't consider the 60mp vs 40mp to be important, both cameras have more than enough resolution for any practical purpose that the M system was originally designed for. In the end it came down which was the closest to the original M ethos in form and function and the M10-R is much closer to that than the M11. I see the M11 as an interim camera, a bridge between the more 'traditional' M10 and whatever a future M12 might be. If long exposure photography was a primary use consideration for me, I would not choose a Leica M10-R or M11 because neither are the best option for this genre of photography, I'd use another camera system. Long exposures apart and to answer your question, yes I would buy the M10-R again over an M11 but my reasons for that might be completely irrelevant to your decision. However, I think for your use M11 might be the better choice because long exposures are an important consideration for you. With M11, you can cancel lenr and the battery life is better-suited to long exposures, although M11's battery is not great by any standard. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SrMi Posted January 24, 2023 Share #19 Posted January 24, 2023 On 1/23/2023 at 8:46 AM, Vonnie said: Hi everyone Im just about to invest in my first Leica. I wondered which be would be better for long exposure city & sea scapes. I’d be interested to hear your views. Thanks M11 is better, especially as it can meter up to 60minutes, IIRC. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vonnie Posted January 26, 2023 Author Share #20 Posted January 26, 2023 On 1/24/2023 at 9:38 PM, SrMi said: M11 is better, especially as it can meter up to 60minutes, IIRC. Thanks Sr Mi, I don't think I would ever use a 60 minute exposure and after reading some of the comments on here I'm starting to re-evaluate the idea of using an m for long exposure. It would mean taking a my 5d mkiv along on my travels too, or part ex it for an slr2 if I get the Leica bug. Now I only have to make my mind up regarding the M10-R vs M11. There are so many pros and cons to both.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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