If you'd need to pick today: 2022 Leica M6 or latest Leica MP (both new)

[Jewl]

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vor 8 Minuten schrieb jpark114:

I'd pick a MP black painted.

I dislike M6's film advance lever and film rewinding knob, and much prefer MP's.

 

However, I'm intrigued by M6's combination of brass and new black paint finish, and I'd love to have one as my additional body

Overall I really like both from a look and feel! I haven't seen and old/classic M6 in real life but at least, as I have the new one here, the body, the black color and feel of the cam is very nice! And I do think the M6 might be more suitable for me as I am always struggling with the outer experience of things in terms of cleanness and condition (scratches etc.) - I might be too careful with the MP as it tends to scratch or lose the paint over time much faster. Even though it is meant to happen, could take some time and mental effort to let go and focus on using the cam instead of caring too much 😄 

But do you think the camera will brass over time? 

[jakontil]

39 minutes ago, Jewl said:

Overall I really like both from a look and feel! I haven't seen and old/classic M6 in real life but at least, as I have the new one here, the body, the black color and feel of the cam is very nice! And I do think the M6 might be more suitable for me as I am always struggling with the outer experience of things in terms of cleanness and condition (scratches etc.) - I might be too careful with the MP as it tends to scratch or lose the paint over time much faster. Even though it is meant to happen, could take some time and mental effort to let go and focus on using the cam instead of caring too much 😄 

But do you think the camera will brass over time? 

Short answer, dont think so unless u intentionally sandpaper it with lots of efforts

from the experience, even a black chrome hardly brassed after some heavy usage

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[Huss]

7 hours ago, Jewl said:

Overall I really like both from a look and feel! I haven't seen and old/classic M6 in real life but at least, as I have the new one here, the body, the black color and feel of the cam is very nice! And I do think the M6 might be more suitable for me as I am always struggling with the outer experience of things in terms of cleanness and condition (scratches etc.) - I might be too careful with the MP as it tends to scratch or lose the paint over time much faster. Even though it is meant to happen, could take some time and mental effort to let go and focus on using the cam instead of caring too much 😄 

But do you think the camera will brass over time? 

If you are talking about the BP MP, no matter how careful you are it will brass on the rewind knob and on the film advance lever.  But that's the point!

[lmans]

On 1/25/2023 at 2:33 AM, Ouroboros said:

 

In your case there is a strong possibility the exposure meter is also faulty.

Or in your case, it can be a faulty BATTERY....you know, that thing you have to purchase to stick in the 'opening' in the front of our camera. It unscrews and you put in the BATTERY. I believe that BATTERY helps you figure out the exposure since you can't  figure out exposure without it being done for you. Ha...I remember I had a 1967 Truck that had red lights on the dashboard in case the driver forgot to check the oil and ran low. We called them 'idiot lights'...

Edited January 27, 2023 by lmans

[Ouroboros]

1 hour ago, lmans said:

Or in your case, it can be a faulty BATTERY....you know, that thing you have to purchase to stick in the 'opening' in the front of our camera. It unscrews and you put in the BATTERY. I believe that BATTERY helps you figure out the exposure since you can't  figure out exposure without it being done for you. Ha...I remember I had a 1967 Truck that had red lights on the dashboard in case the driver forgot to check the oil and ran low. We called them 'idiot lights'...

Those red lights on the dashboard must have been invaluable for you.

[lmans]

30 minutes ago, Ouroboros said:

Those red lights on the dashboard must have been invaluable for you.

With a 67 Ford…. They are always needed:) Unlike my MA:) 

[Huss]

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The BP MP feels warmer and grippier in hand compared to the new M6 - both in front of me.

[logan2z]

I think I'm going to change my answer to 'neither', if I had to choose today.  At least not until Leica can demonstrate that they can consistently deliver a new film camera that actually works - without multiple, lengthy trips back for service. 

[Jewl]

vor 11 Stunden schrieb logan2z:

I think I'm going to change my answer to 'neither', if I had to choose today.  At least not until Leica can demonstrate that they can consistently deliver a new film camera that actually works - without multiple, lengthy trips back for service. 

true! And I really cannot imagine how uncomfortable the situation must be, if you are not located in Germany! And even then I find it very cumbersome to always send this expensive gear to Wetzlar always hoping everything is going smoothly. So either they improve the overall reliability from the beginning or they need to improve the service possibilities. As the latter does not seem to improve, I go for the former 😉 

[LocalHero1953]

5 minutes ago, Jewl said:

true! And I really cannot imagine how uncomfortable the situation must be, if you are not located in Germany! And even then I find it very cumbersome to always send this expensive gear to Wetzlar always hoping everything is going smoothly. So either they improve the overall reliability from the beginning or they need to improve the service possibilities. As the latter does not seem to improve, I go for the former 😉 

Sending stuff to Wetzlar is not a problem at all if you have a national Leica branch. I have always sent stuff via Leica in London. If I take it there, then they have done the packing as well. (The problem is always how long it takes to come back). Where do you live? 

Edited January 30, 2023 by LocalHero1953

[Jewl]

vor einer Stunde schrieb LocalHero1953:

Sending stuff to Wetzlar is not a problem at all if you have a national Leica branch. I have always sent stuff via Leica in London. If I take it there, then they have done the packing as well. (The problem is always how long it takes to come back). Where do you live? 

I typically leverage the parcels I initially received by customer care, these are properly buffered etc. - the next Leica store that could take this over is more or less on the way to Wetzlar (Leica Store Frankfurt, 1h drive - Wetzlar 1.5h drive) - but I really don't want to spend so much time always to drive Frankfurt or Wetzlar which costs me 3-4h which needs to be planned in parallel to working hours etc.. And it is anyway just the hand over, if they'd service/fix issues directly, then I would think about it.

But yes, it is fine to send it via UPS as long as the shipping label is provided.

[Big John]

On 1/24/2023 at 5:10 PM, lmans said:

For me....there is a special 'flow' inherent with the process of shooting a scene when no light meter is used. I am not going to say there is no interruption of thought, as obviously I have to look at the light, shadows etc and know my camera settings. But to me, that is part of this 'special flow'. I imagine (only you know how you shoot), that most photographers who use a light meter such as on the M6, really are not paying close attention to the actual camera settings other than taking their left hand and moving the aperture so the arrows or dots show exposure.  How many of you are doing that, for that process to me,  appears 'bland'.... 

I shoot mainly with my MA, and when I go out shooting, I know that my 'zone' or 'mood' has to be really 'centered'. Yesterday I took the M6 out and using the light meter, I just started grabbing photo's w/o really paying much attention to the settings. It was far too easy and I was less centered, as I essentially turned the lens aperture to match up red dots. 

As I have suggested earlier.......For users of the M6/mp, take out the battery on the front compartment of your camera and load a 24 roll of film. Don't worry about the end product for now, for the process of learning how to shoot w/o a light meter might take some time. Rather.... grab that intangible 'feel' of shooting by using no light meter. See what it feels like to shoot 'even' less than you might shoot with M6/mp. Then ask yourself; ...how has the process or flow of shooting changed? Can you feel your mood being more connected, focused...the flow more directed? 

If not... then after this experimental roll, put the battery back in and you haven't lost much but you have gained in broadening your experience.

So the question for this forum topic should include all 3 Leica film cameras (MA, M6 & Mp). 

 

I know this is an old post, but……..I am choosing a first film M (am in my 50s so not a hipster following a trend). This comment really resonated with me: I can see how easy it is to just follow the light meter instructions rather than understand the camera settings. I am considering an M-A and just wanted to ask - if I leave out the battery, does the M6 literally become an M-A?  Thanks.  

[Anbaric]

20 minutes ago, Big John said:

I know this is an old post, but……..I am choosing a first film M (am in my 50s so not a hipster following a trend). This comment really resonated with me: I can see how easy it is to just follow the light meter instructions rather than understand the camera settings. I am considering an M-A and just wanted to ask - if I leave out the battery, does the M6 literally become an M-A?  Thanks.  

No, the M6 has a significantly different wind-on lever and a foldable rewind crank (which is quicker to operate) rather than a knob. The M-A is much closer to the MP (so close that they had to plug the hole where the battery would go in a metered camera). To a neutral observer, the other differences between these models might appear trivial, but some M-A users feel they are important. The M-A doesn't have the 'half-press' on the shutter release that triggers the meter on the MP, and the framelines aren't interrupted by metering LEDs (though I think the vestigial 75mm framelines are worse on the M-A). The available finishes are also different.

I've often shot with meterless cameras and I can't say I've ever experienced a 'special flow'. With any manual camera, I'm pretty aware of the settings I'm using, regardless of whether the meter is in my viewfinder, in my hand, or back at home. The framing and the timing of your shot are the important things. Meters help you to do the boring stuff more quickly, though having the ability to shoot without one is a useful skill, and can help you use a meter more intelligently when you do have one (or pick up problems when the meter isn't giving you sensible readings).

If I were going to add a meterless M to my M6, it would probably be a classic model like an M2 or an M4, which cost much less than an M-A.

[Herr Barnack]

I had a 2003 black paint MP, which I enjoyed.  To choose now, I would get the M6 just for a change.

 

 

 

 

On second thought, I'm going to hold out for the M6-P with the no film scratch upgrade.

Edited April 12 by Herr Barnack

[Big John]

23 minutes ago, Anbaric said:

No, the M6 has a significantly different wind-on lever and a foldable rewind crank (which is quicker to operate) rather than a knob. The M-A is much closer to the MP (so close that they had to plug the hole where the battery would go in a metered camera). To a neutral observer, the other differences between these models might appear trivial, but some M-A users feel they are important. The M-A doesn't have the 'half-press' on the shutter release that triggers the meter on the MP, and the framelines aren't interrupted by metering LEDs (though I think the vestigial 75mm framelines are worse on the M-A). The available finishes are also different.

I've often shot with meterless cameras and I can't say I've ever experienced a 'special flow'. With any manual camera, I'm pretty aware of the settings I'm using, regardless of whether the meter is in my viewfinder, in my hand, or back at home. The framing and the timing of your shot are the important things. Meters help you to do the boring stuff more quickly, though having the ability to shoot without one is a useful skill, and can help you use a meter more intelligently when you do have one (or pick up problems when the meter isn't giving you sensible readings).

If I were going to add a meterless M to my M6, it would probably be a classic model like an M2 or an M4, which cost much less than an M-A.

Thank you @Anbaric  I guess I was too simple in what I said. Am aware of most of the differences you mention - in fact have been trying M film cameras out over recent weeks. I didn’t know about the half press on the shutter (although it makes sense). I guess I was asking if an M6 would function fine without a battery (and to all intents and purposes be like an M-A when it comes to capturing an image). I understand: yes. 
 

I am drawn to the M-A but need to understand somethings a bit more. Whether I use Sunny 16 or an external light meter, I am trying to understand how an online lab can compensate for accidental under/over exposure and therefore utilise the full latitude of film. 

Edited April 12 by Big John

[Anbaric]

40 minutes ago, Big John said:

 I guess I was asking if an M6 would function fine without a battery (and to all intents and purposes be like an M-A when it comes to capturing an image). I understand: yes.

Yes ,with the new M6 reissue or the M6 classic everything except the meter works fine without a battery, as if it were an M4-P (the closest meterless camera to the M6). With the M6-TTL, I think the flash sync needs a battery, even with a non-dedicated flash.

40 minutes ago, Big John said:

I am drawn to the M-A but need to understand somethings a bit more. Whether I use Sunny 16 or an external light meter, I am trying to understand how an online lab can compensate for accidental under/over exposure and therefore utilise the full latitude of film. 

Some films have quite a lot of latitude, especially colour negative film, especially if your err on the side of overexposure. Portra, for example, can tolerate several stops of overexposure, and at least a stop of undexposure. This is why single use cameras can get away with fixed shutter speeds and apertures and still produce acceptable results. If you are using an online lab and getting scans or prints done, the operator can preview the results and make adjustments before saving the scan or making the print (late model minilabs are hybrid digital - they use real light-sensitive photographic paper, but print from scans rather than directly from the negatives).

Edited April 12 by Anbaric

[hansvons]

12 hours ago, Big John said:

I guess I was asking if an M6 would function fine without a battery (and to all intents and purposes be like an M-A when it comes to capturing an image). I understand: yes. 

It will become essentially an M4-P, which I have besides an M6. I shoot with both cameras approx 10 rolls a month, a third of them will the M4-P. I prefer the M6 but have a soft spot for its meter-less predecessor (disabled children receive the most love in a family).
There is no advantage of shooting with a meter-less camera, other than having less clutter in the viewfinder. In studio situations (think of a classic Hasselblad C500 or a 35mm movie camera) where the environment is controlled and a working aperture is the norm, not bothering with a meter in the VF makes sense. But in a reportage-like situation a built-in meter is of tremendous help.

I can see the flow thing and the lever thing as a way to shot like granddaddy did. However, if that was what I were looking for I‘d buy the real thing, a pristine M4 or M2/3. Please bear in mind that that very granddaddy sold his M4 40 years a go for an M6 to have finally a meter. 

I bought the M4-P to test the waters without investing too much money into an uncertain journey. When the path became clear and the M4-P became my main camera and for my projects a second camera was inevitable, I bought an freshly CLAed M6. It‘s the more useful M-model. I was thinking of selling the M4-P a few times and swap it for another M6. That may happen at some point. But then it will be a brand new M6. 

12 hours ago, Big John said:

I am drawn to the M-A but need to understand somethings a bit more. Whether I use Sunny 16 or an external light meter, I am trying to understand how an online lab can compensate for accidental under/over exposure and therefore utilise the full latitude of film.

Hopefully not offending you, I‘d say that this question cries for a built-in meter. I know that there are many seasoned photographers on this forum who say they use Sunny Sixteen, but I don’t. I don’t see the point in being totally committed to my photo-making but be sloppy on the exposure side. And even a built-in or external meter will bring you only in a ballpark (albeit a good one).

For the proper experience, I‘d scan my negs myself. There a lots of threads here dealing with this. Negative film, BTW, knows only one way of forgiving and that is  overexposure. A modern ISO 400 film becomes grainy and dull at ISO 800 but can be exposed at ISO 100 without much of a difference in the result and even ISO 25 is doable to a certain extend. I know that because in filmmaking you tend to shot at an working aperture of, say, f4 but open the aperture to f1.4 to check focus and forget to close it again. The results can be usable from an exposure point of view. 

[pixmeister]

I chose the reissue Leica M6.  It is my first Leica ever.  It simply came down to local availability and price.  The local Leica dealer offered the M6 at the introductory price of $5295 USD.   As to aesthetics I like the M-A the best.  I prefer the understated look.  As for the light meter, I can use sunny 16, the M6 meter, or a handheld light meter.  I have all three choices to consider and experience.  However, I hope the light meter does not become a reliability issue.