m10 to m11?

[M11 for me]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

vor 3 Stunden schrieb T25UFO:

You would't if you had to travel to Cambridge every day 🤣

edit: won't mean anything to anyone outside the UK.

OMG you mean the traffic jam 

[M11 for me]

vor einer Stunde schrieb WvE:

My M10-P (SC) is more than sufficient

Beautiful Silver Chrome. Great choice. 

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[gotium]

I like the weight (black version), grippiness (black version) and battery life of the M11. 

I don’t find any advantage in the higher resolution for general use because my focusing skill is barely up to 60 mp and I get a lot of motion blur. The EVF is better but not enough to be worth an upgrade (that had been my big hope for the M11). 

[M11 for me]

vor 3 Minuten schrieb gotium:

my focusing skill is barely up to 60 mp

That is a myth

[gotium]

2 minutes ago, M11 for me said:

That is a myth

yes, I’m mythical

[shirubadanieru]

I had both and I have none now so I can try to be as unbiased as possible in my advice. This is my personal thoughts and experience only, and not trying to dispute any other people's thoughts, just sharing my experience. 

I felt that the M9 lineup was the perfect iteration of the film M camera in the digital world. From there, Leica tried to please everyone and match the features in other cameras, and that was a mistake with the M240, with video, etc. 

With the M10, Leica understood they made a mistake and went back to its roots and focused on further making the M line closer to its roots (M3~). That was a step in the right direction. That being said, I still missed the M9 and went back to it, and in the M10 lineup I enjoy the M10M, M10-D, and M10-R. 

With the launch of the M11, while externally Leica kept the body design true to their roots and did not change what they had built with the M10, internally I felt that Leica took a similar approach as they did from the transition of the M9 to the M240, trying to match features other cameras have, and losing bit of its soul and their roots in the process. For example, the new metering system, the new shutter implementation, the new EVF...it just feels like it's a camera made to please people who love the SL2, but designed to fit into a Leica M body. I really didn't like it and the camera just lasted a month in my collection.

I feel that when the M12 comes, it will either be Leica understanding they need to get back to their roots and focus on what makes the M lineup great and take a similar approach as they did with the M9 --> M240 --> M10. OR they will continue building on top of the concept of the M11, and further deep dive on this new chapter for the M line, potentially creating a new M with no mechanical shutter, hybrid EVF/OVF, etc...I truly hope that they don't do that, as that would be a sad end of the M line for me. 

Long story short, stick with the M10. That'd be my two cents. 

For some context so you can better understand what I enjoy in the Leica lineup, I'm mostly a film shooter with a Barnack camera and an M3, and I shoot 1930 and 1960 lenses and do not enjoy the clinical rendering of ASPH lenses. My only digital is the M10M and I much prefer it to any M10 or M11. 

[cesc]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

51 minutes ago, shirubadanieru said:

I had both and I have none now so I can try to be as unbiased as possible in my advice. This is my personal thoughts and experience only, and not trying to dispute any other people's thoughts, just sharing my experience. 

I felt that the M9 lineup was the perfect iteration of the film M camera in the digital world. From there, Leica tried to please everyone and match the features in other cameras, and that was a mistake with the M240, with video, etc. 

With the M10, Leica understood they made a mistake and went back to its roots and focused on further making the M line closer to its roots (M3~). That was a step in the right direction. That being said, I still missed the M9 and went back to it, and in the M10 lineup I enjoy the M10M, M10-D, and M10-R. 

With the launch of the M11, while externally Leica kept the body design true to their roots and did not change what they had built with the M10, internally I felt that Leica took a similar approach as they did from the transition of the M9 to the M240, trying to match features other cameras have, and losing bit of its soul and their roots in the process. For example, the new metering system, the new shutter implementation, the new EVF...it just feels like it's a camera made to please people who love the SL2, but designed to fit into a Leica M body. I really didn't like it and the camera just lasted a month in my collection.

I feel that when the M12 comes, it will either be Leica understanding they need to get back to their roots and focus on what makes the M lineup great and take a similar approach as they did with the M9 --> M240 --> M10. OR they will continue building on top of the concept of the M11, and further deep dive on this new chapter for the M line, potentially creating a new M with no mechanical shutter, hybrid EVF/OVF, etc...I truly hope that they don't do that, as that would be a sad end of the M line for me. 

Long story short, stick with the M10. That'd be my two cents. 

For some context so you can better understand what I enjoy in the Leica lineup, I'm mostly a film shooter with a Barnack camera and an M3, and I shoot 1930 and 1960 lenses and do not enjoy the clinical rendering of ASPH lenses. My only digital is the M10M and I much prefer it to any M10 or M11. 

I am curious, because I was a film shooter too, (M2, M3, M6 and MP) but film has become really expensive and with kids I don't have the same amount of time to spent developping and dark room. So I decided to jump to digital with the M10. Would M10M a better choice? Also how does it look in digital using vintage lenses? I am aware that a bit out of focus images in digital are not the same as film photos where they have some kind of a magic because of the grain.

Thanks a lot for sharing your comments. I am probably most sure keep shooting with the M10 seeing the upgrades that the M11 is offering.

[shirubadanieru]

6 minutes ago, cesc said:

I am curious, because I was a film shooter too, (M2, M3, M6 and MP) but film has become really expensive and with kids I don't have the same amount of time to spent developping and dark room. So I decided to jump to digital with the M10. Would M10M a better choice? Also how does it look in digital using vintage lenses? I am aware that a bit out of focus images in digital are not the same as film photos where they have some kind of a magic because of the grain.

Thanks a lot for sharing your comments. I am probably most sure keep shooting with the M10 seeing the upgrades that the M11 is offering.

Hi! Go to the lens category and you can check some of my shots in the ‘Elmar 35/50’ thread, taken with the M10M. I think it’s a beautiful combination! You can also check some shots in the M10M old lens thread. I love Monochrom with old lenses, and the reason I got it was simply because the price of TriX just kept going up. 

While for color I still feel that nothing can match the beauty of film, for black and white (while film is still the best), Monochrom gets so, so close that is worth it. Between M10M and M11, definitely 1000% M10M. Of course, you have to enjoy shooting in B&W to make it worth it though : ) 

Edited January 26, 2023 by shirubadanieru

[Photoworks]

7 hours ago, shirubadanieru said:

I felt that the M9 lineup was the perfect iteration of the film M camera in the digital world.

can you put into words why you think the M9 was the better M camera for you?

[otto.f]

On 1/23/2023 at 10:02 AM, M11 for me said:

I love the name M11 😊

We saw that!

[shirubadanieru]

10 hours ago, Photoworks said:

can you put into words why you think the M9 was the better M camera for you?

The M9 focused on the basics of what makes an M camera great. 

→ ISO / Shutter Speed & a body to put a lens. Nothing else was the focus, no fancy technology slowing / complicating the camera, just the essentialsw

→ Body design wise it was as any film camera, while slightly fatter, the weight stayed at 580g.

→ Sensor. Great rendering, 18MP which is enough for most things, and no issue shooting it as a film camera at slower shutter speeds etc. For example M10M / M11 I never shoot below 1/250 or things get blurry. 

It's getting a bit old now, but still the best digital M, alongside the M9M. Due to age I wouldn't go looking for one now, but that was a great camera that ignited my passion for Leica Rangefinders.

[Kiwimac]

Imagine if the M11 had been the M10R with a couple of extra function buttons, the 60MP sensor, the Q2 battery system and some internal memory…!

[tjxism]

Adding my 2 cents here. I started with M240P and upgraded to an M10 in 2017. The upgrade was significant as the sensor in M10 was technically much better than M240 (DR wise), and M240 chip is so slow. However,  while using M10 for a few years, I do miss the M240 colors and found M10 images too plain for my taste. Additional processing is needed for every shot and 24mp limits cropping if needing to print big. Also, M10is buggier comparing to the P version. In early 2020, I bought an MP and sold my M10, planning to get a hires digital, either 10R or else later on.

Then Covid came. Cameras are at the bottom of my lists and 10R was never considered. 

Now we're finally out of the doom of pandemic, I decided to go back to digital as film is just insanely expensive and inconvenient for travelling. I didn't investigate much about the M11, but had seen review stating the color was similar to M9/M240, I pulled my trigger instantly. Here's my thoughts after using it for about a month and after a trip (fw1.6):

Pro:

• Lighter body is sooo great!!!
• Battery is insane
• Fotos App
• Out of camera color is satisfying for social media and needs little post edit for serious purpose
• The camera is responsive like a 2022 digital camera

Con:

• Shutter feels and sounds laggy. I can't give technical measurements though. I wish it still has the old mechanism or has electrical front curtain shutter
• AWB isn't accurate enough

Wish lists:

• new rangefinder implementation to accommodate the new close focus lenses
• in-body stabilization

If I had read about the freeze gate and fully understood the shutter change about the M11, I might be in a debate as the OP is. The lighter body and the out of camera colors are solid pluses comparing to an M10. These are the improvements I've always expected from a Leica M. However, if I had an digital M with me, I’d certainly wait for the M11P. 

Edited February 3, 2023 by tjxism

[tom0511]

Am 21.1.2023 um 16:49 schrieb cesc:

Hi everybody,

I am thinking of upgrading my M10 to an M11, actually, I am thinking of getting rid off my M10 and Q2M and go for an M11.

My question is, how many of you have decided to updgrade from an M10 to a M11. I would love to hear your personal thoughts. Thanks so much for your time and comments.

I went from M10 to M10R (at that time I enjoyed the more silent shutter, better highlight rolloff,...) and got a good opportunity to switch.

I betatesteded the M11 so I had chance to compare both for some time. The decision was not so easy but in the end the new exposure metering is a real life plus for me, I also like the slightly lower weight, the new EVF, the long lasting battery. The sensor of M11 is great but the M10R sensor is great as well IMO.

The shutter sound is different as you probably know so if you have the chance to check out before buying I would recommend to do so.

The M10r feels a little bit more "analog" and the M11 a little more modern.

[M11 for me]

When I started with M cameras I did not want "the essential" or "back to the roots" or whatever. I wanted a tool that I could have with me all the time (besides the heavy DSLRs). That is still my view. And the M11 is a big step forward which I fully support. I do not think that the old metering system was so old fashioned and nice and so much M-like. No, the new one works much better. So when I could choose I would choose the new one. Then the sensor is better (compared to basic M10). The whole M11 as a camera is the much better tool (I had the basic M10). That is what counts to me. 

 

[MrPaulK]

On 2/4/2023 at 3:43 AM, M11 for me said:

When I started with M cameras I did not want "the essential" or "back to the roots" or whatever. I wanted a tool that I could have with me all the time (besides the heavy DSLRs).

 

Yah, I switched to leica for two reasons: A review of all my best work showed that I did much better with more manual cameras that took time (they were things like MF RF, LF and some Bessa RF 35mm work), so clearly not being able to be sloppy was a plus for me. But replace with what? The M11 said to me that Leica was finally going to make the best camera they could make within the limits of size and RF (both of which I liked), and not be bound by tradition, and was a big selling point to me. It was my first Leica. The only thing I have missed at all (for my photography) is IBIS, it really is lovely to have, but not insurmountable.  And I still need to figure out something better for using RF + eyeglasses

[Henners]

I've had both the M10-R and M11. Both are great but different feel like others have said. The M11 you'll give up some of the magic that shooting with an M camera brings and in return you get no external charger required, all/multi day battery. GPS co-ords in your photo Exif info, 60MP, processing speed and ISO assignable on the thumb wheel. 

Is it worth it? That's a personal choice and I'm stuck in the middle of both to be honest. I love having the GPS co-ords in my photos and the amazing battery life (no battery life anxiety when out for the day) plus the USB-C charging means the ability to charge on the spot with a battery bank. The ISO on the thumb wheel is a big deal if you shoot manually.

I really don't like the M11 shutter, it takes away from the simplicity of shooting as it's nice to have the confirming shutter sound on the M10 so you know the exact moment the photo was taken. The M11 muddies that by having multiple weird clicks, sometimes I think I've taken more than one photo but it's just the shutter dancing about.

One of the big things is the top dial on both the M10 and M11 are awful in my opinion, I don't know why they've done it like they have but the M11 allows you to skip it completely. The M10 you'll have to wrestle with it to change ISO, good luck with that in the winter with gloves on...

If you like the world to be a simple place, get the M10-R and go take photos. If you like a bit extra, the M11 might be your camera.

[lucy63]

The slow wake up and operational noise was v confusing at times.....had I taken a photo or not?..that and the camera freeze made the camera so awkward really.

[Jeff S]

19 hours ago, MrPaulK said:

 And I still need to figure out something better for using RF + eyeglasses

What’s your issue?

Jeff

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[jakontil]

7 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

What’s your issue?

Jeff

I think framelines invisible when wearing glasses, viewing angle issue