m10 to m11?

[cesc]

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Hi everybody,

I am thinking of upgrading my M10 to an M11, actually, I am thinking of getting rid off my M10 and Q2M and go for an M11.

My question is, how many of you have decided to updgrade from an M10 to a M11. I would love to hear your personal thoughts. Thanks so much for your time and comments.

[Henners]

I have an M10-R which I'm selling but have had that for about 2 months. I wanted an M11 but couldn't find one so grabbed the M10-R. I then picked up an M11 and my thoughts are:

M10-R Pros

More traditional shutter actuation
Less complexity
Sensor produces warmer jpegs

M11 Pros

Geotagging images
More accurate metering
USB-C
Larger Battery
 

Both are great, I'd be perfectly happy with either an M10-R BP or M11 in black, although I think the M11 pips it for the larger battery (shoot all day on one) and USB-C for recharging without having to take a specific charger on holiday etc and the geotagging. Small things that don't matter massively but are nice.

If you have the non R version of the M10 then it's probably going to be a nice upgrade if you care about resolution. It does help but as we all know, doesn't mean better photos in the end. 

Edited January 21 by Henners

[Renatus]

Only material negative I’ve experienced between my M10R and M11 is the relatively higher noise level (only noticeable at higher ISO (see Reidreviews) or under-exposures on the M11. Rest of pros are worthwhile for me, cons cited elsewhere are minor imho. There are other M11 pros than you mention, such as weight and crop advantages. (DxO PureRaw2 fixes noise better than CaptureOne for me.) Anyway, this is just my amateur impression. 

[SrMi]

1 hour ago, jqian6 said:

You come here everyone says yep do it .

You go to m10 forum everyone says don’t do it.

I learned that in the past two weeks:)

As this is the forum where the cool guys hang out ;-)., you will find many M10 owners participating as well. Therefore, many will advise against upgrading. 
However, my advice is to get an M11. There are too many significant improvements that tilt the choice toward M11. 

Edited January 21 by SrMi

[DenverSteve]

If the long-posted benefits/upgrades of the M11 don't already have you convinced - keep your M10.  You can start with these.  You can also read this review: https://www.slack.co.uk/leica-m11.html  The rest is up to you. 

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[setuporg]

Looking at the freezegate, I’d wait for M11-P.

[dot-me-not]

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Is the M11 the first work-from-home-designed M?

[rfunnell]

My experience in the past has always to wait for the P version.

M10R here and it's only a matter of time until the M11P. BLACK 

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[Kiwimac]

My advice is do it. But not yet. 
 

i don’t think the M11 is a fully mature camera yet. Still too many issues too often. 
 

I’d wait - and am waiting - until the P iteration at least. 
 

I don’t doubt for a minute that the M11 is an improvement, but it needs the wrinkles ironed out still I believe. 
 

YMMV of course. 

[setuporg]

As my daughters say, the P-boys here get it.

[SrMi]

Since an M11-P has never been announced nor rumored, waiting for P may mean "waiting for Godot."

[MyLeicaWorld]

M11 is a real huge improvement but the only thing I couldn’t get used to is the new shutter and the long opening time..

[Stef63]

Upgraded from M10 to M11 a year ago.  I am a Leica digital M user since 2009 and have had virtually all the non-P and non-D versions.

Contrary to the many people here that say that the M11 is still an immature platform (either by experience or by forming an opinion based on other people complaining) I have to say that by my experience my M11 is my first flawless digital M. Disclaimer : this is my experience and I am not saying there are no issues, and I'm not saying that it is largely exaggerated that the M11 is an immature platform. Maybe I'm just the lucky one. 

Things I like :

• No baseplate (!). I know a lot of M owners will say the opposite, but to me, the baseplate is a nostalgic thing of the past with little practical use.  Since Arte di Mano started producing half cases with a battery and memory card access door, my baseplates stayed in the drawer.
• Improved Battery capacity and design.
• USB-C charging and a small, very portable USB-C powered batty charger
• Less weight (I have the black version)
• ISO and dynamic range
• Button and menu layout close to the SL2
• Much better Visoflex 2 than previous models
• Perspective control
• ... no freezes or other issues  (limited to my experience)

Things I dislike :

• 60mp is not necessary for my use, and camera shake sometimes becomes a noticeable problem.  This results in having to resort to higher shutter speeds.
• At the moment the M12 will be introduced, my M11 will stop making pleasing photo's 🙁

Conclusion (for me):

• M11 is certainly an improvement over the previous model, but I found the difference between M240 and M10 much bigger.  

If you look at the Leica M timeline: 

The M9 was announced 36 months after the M8.  We had to wait another 36 months for the M240, 52 months for M10 and 60 months for M11 (delayed maybe due to the pandemic)

The M8.2 (sort of M8-P model) was announced 24 months after the M8.  The M9-P was announced 21 months after the M9.  M240-P model 23 months after the M240.  And finally the M10-P 19 months after the M10. 

The M11 came to the market 12 months ago.  Add 19 months, and we are August 2023. It is however unlikely Leica will introduce a new model during the summer break.  I would say fall 2023 at the earliest.  But that is a very wild guess based only on what Leica did in the past.  They might change that, and only THEY will know.

@cesc Good luck with taking the decision!

[M11 for me]

vor 5 Stunden schrieb MyLeicaWorld:

I couldn’t get used to is the new shutter and the long opening time..

@cesc Go to try that out in the Leica Store. I never understood that point. To me this is a no-issue.

Sorry @MyLeicaWorld

By the Way: I got my M10 at the very beginning when it was launched and changed to the M11 exactly a year ago. For me it's the much better camera. Go for the M11. At the time when the M11-P will be here all issues from the M11 will be solved as well. The P model will be based on the M11.

Edited January 22 by M11 for me

[FrankX]

I switched from M10 to M11 last year and never regretted it. From my point of view the M11 offers a lot of unique selling points:

- Battery life is awesome compared to M10. USB-C charging comes in handy.

- The sensor of the M11 is state of the art regarding dynamic range, iso noise levels and resolution even in 2023. M10 sensor wasn't even in 2017.

- I like the new, intelligent metering modes. The electronic shutter is another plus shooting wide open in bright light (however, it is a bit slow...).

- Camera operation using the EVF is way more fluent (like a usual mirrorless camera). The EVF itself is in another league (but not at SL2 level).

- The new in-camera storage means for me, that I am finally using it at weddings. Personally, never would do it with only a single card with the M10! 

- User interface is more in line with my SL2.

Unfortunately, FW is still a little bit buggy. However, it does not really annoy me so far. Used it for more than 8 months now and it had max. 2-3 freezes. Can't remember the last one...

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[jakontil]

i was an M10 user, and i thought, the R was what M10 should have been, and i love the black paint, hence im keeping it, im adding the M11, IQ not much different or improved according to my workflow, but the battery life and usb c alone are massive improvements in my experience

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[otto.f]

4 hours ago, Stef63 said:

I would say fall 2023 at the earliest.  But that is a very wild guess based only on what Leica did in the past.  They might change that, and only THEY will know.

I do not expect real, interesting, relevant, lineair progress actually. I expect much more variations in width, special features for special tastes. More Mp: is that relevant for an M? IBIS: wouldn’t Leica  betray their most important hallmark? Etc. In fact most users who stepped over from M10-R to M11, see small and relatively insignificant innovations. So, paradoxically, I would wait whether Leica comes up with something really new. I don’t see it. 

Edited January 22 by otto.f

[SrMi]

5 minutes ago, otto.f said:

I do not expect real, interesting, relevant, lineair progress actually. I expect much more variations in width, special features for special tastes. More Mp: is that relevant for an M? IBIS: wouldn’t Leica  betray their most important hallmark? Etc. In fact most users who stepped over from M10-R to M11, see small and relatively insignificant innovations. So, paradoxically, I would wait whether Leica comes up with something really new. I don’t see it. 

What hallmark would be betrayed by introducing IBIS?
If it means removing the mechanical shutter, it will solve all the complaints about the shutter opening/closing. Of course, without the mechanical shutter, the camera would be more practical, but the haptics would change.

[Mr.Prime]

I’m waiting for the M14 🤣

[jakontil]

im pessimistic leica would stick with the old fashioned camera ... m11 started by removing the baseplate, and soon probably the mechanical shutter should the electronic experience is as good 

probably the would stick with RF till its last breath since that's what M intended for 

however, it will gradually change.. and none could stop it..