Landscape Lenses

[Franka373]

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I know that, quote, any lens can be a landscape lens but please give me minute to address my question.  It has been my anecdotal understanding that various Leica M lenses are optimized for various distances to get its best output, mainly close to middle distances. I may be wrong but over the years I have read this here and other forums.  So my question is are there M lenses that are optimized for landscapes where close up to infinity is sharp at f/8 to 11 or so. Am I way off base here?  If not which lenses lend themselves better for landscapes?  The lenses I have are the 28 summicron current version, the 50 APO, and the 90 elmarit last version. Thanks for your patience.  

Edited January 20, 2023 by Franka373

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[williamj]

I suspect that most of these legends are due to improperly adjusted individual copies of lenses but I hope to be proved wrong.

In the Antique Cameras website under Leica Lens Reviews Mr Alfred Breull describes a 28 mm Elmarit that was extraordinary up to 10 metres but unsharp after that. We don't know whether that is typical of all 28 Elmarits of that design or whether there was something wrong with the focussing system. He did not complain that he could not focus it accurately. He did sell it, though. This would not be a lens that he could have used for landscapes that needed sharpness at infinity https://www.antiquecameras.net/cameralensinformation/leicalensreviews.html.

I have a 35 mm F/2.8 Summaron-RF that gives sharp images up to 7 to 8 metres but I'm sure that this is due to it being out of adjustment because a target at 1 metre is sharp when the lens is focussed to 3 metres. I can use it for street photography. Obviously this is an individual lens problem. See attached photo.

It is alleged that infinite was set as a tree outside the Wetzlar factory when adjusting rangefinders in the 'old days' but that nowadays the rangefinder is calibrated using high technology. I would add that to the legends of Wetzlar.

Both images are at f8, 400TX in straight XTOL.

The first image is focussed as if the object was 2-3 times further than it was.

You can see from the detail it is quite sharp.

 

 

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[williamj]

Here is the second image focussed using the rangefinder and I confirmed that the distance on the lens corresponded to the distance of the object. You can see that despite it being at f8.0 the image detail is soft.

 

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[RexGig0]

There has been discussion on the Fred Miranda forum, with very serious landscape shooters really liking some of the Leica R lenses, such as the E55 version of the Elmarit-R 28mm. This prompted me to add this lens to my evil bay watch list, but, I have yet to acquire this lens. More recently, some have asserted that the Voigtlander 28mm Ultron II VM is better than Leica Elmarit-R 28mm E55. If I recall correctly, some of those assertions were made my users who are members of this forum, as well as the Fred Miranda forum. 

Fred Miranda, himself, recently posted a list of his four favored Voigtlander M-mount landscape lenses. I copied his list, into my iPad’s Notes, but would rather that Fred speak for himself. (I am thankful, to Fred Miranda, for what I have called my “shopping list.”)

If this method works, on this forum: Paging @Fred_Miranda to see this, and respond. 🙂

Edited January 20, 2023 by RexGig0

[Franka373]

I don't think the question is whether I am happy or not, so let me be more succinct.  Leica makes lenses today from 21mm to 135mm for the Leica M.  They come in various apertures, qualities, and types such as APO, Asph, etc.  Leica traditionally is a reportage, street and documentary ethos with short to middle distances the norm.  We use the camera and lenses for many purposes including macro.  Leica, I doubt, has made all these lenses for its traditional uses stated already, but maybe they have and we just use them how we want.  My question is are any of the lenses made with landscapes in mind with wide depth of field as their primary purpose or not.  I hope I am being clear.  Thanks

[Franka373]

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Thanks for the heads up about Fred.  I'll see what I can find. I struggle to read the lens tests he does because they go on for pages with a lot of detail and I try to slug through them but I am not an expert on lens lingo and terms so I don't really get a conclusion of what I am reading.  I need a cliff notes version.  Don't get me wrong.  Fred provides an excellent service with his tests.  It's not Fred, it's me. 

[williamj]

Barnack wanted his camera for use for landscapes. The older lenses have an infinite lock. He and Berek weren’t thinking of reportage when making the cameras and lenses. In years of following Leica lore I have not heard that certain lenses were  optimised for short to mid distances. 
Erwin Puts said that Leica lenses were optimised for mid apertures whereas Nikon lenses were optimised for wide open in the old days. 

[Kiwimac]

I’m afraid I’m missing something here. 
 

Since when were most lenses made for specific purposes?

 

 Surely any lens in good condition, focused at infinity and set to an appropriate aperture to deliver depth of field will deliver landscape images?

 Overall sharpness edge to edge and general acuity are desirable. 
 

According to the app on my phone, an M10-R using a 50mm at f8 will be in acceptable focus from about 10.5m to a subject 3km away. 
 

I’m not seeing quite what the question is but that may well be idiocy on my part!

[Franka373]

Or idiocy on my part.  However, as noted above Fred Miranda does extensive testing of a lot of M lenses.  Also noted he came up with the 4 best landscape M lenses in his view.  I can’t find that post nor did I know he made that comment.  There must be a reason for why he would do that. He has concluded some lenses are better for landscape than others I think.  I don’t know. That why I ask the question. 

Edited January 20, 2023 by Franka373

[Cobram]

For landscape I prefer SEM 21mm and almost always use it at F8. From my experience and for my needs it is better than Cron 28 in this regard.

[Al Brown]

5 hours ago, Franka373 said:

Fred Miranda does extensive testing of a lot of M lenses.  Also noted he came up with the 4 best landscape M lenses in his view.  I can’t find that post nor did I know he made that comment.  There must be a reason for why he would do that. He has concluded some lenses are better for landscape than others I think.  I don’t know.

Field curvature of Leica M lenses is a big feind of landscape photography.
As a rule of thumb, latest "Karbe" ASPH and/or APO lenses are stellar performers and great for "modern" landscape. All others will ad character.
For all other inquiries above, just ask @Fred Miranda .

[S Maclean]

SE 21 Mm is, in my opinion, a very high performer on landscapes. Incredible lens.

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[pgk]

8 hours ago, Franka373 said:

I know that, quote, any lens can be a landscape lens but please give me minute to address my question.  It has been my anecdotal understanding that various Leica M lenses are optimized for various distances to get its best output, mainly close to middle distances. I may be wrong .....

You are. Most lenses performance drops off a closer distances and Leica are no exception, hence the use of 'floating element' design intended to rectify this; hardly something Leica would do if they didn't need to. Since most lenses wil be used at infinity its highly unlike that any manufacturer would deliberately maladjust a lens in order to optimise it for close work, the exception being perhaps macro lenses. That said, I've used macro lenses for landscape work and have no qualms about saying that they work extremely well at infinity too.

I have used a lot on M lenses over the years and cannot think of one which has had any problems being used for landscapes other than the inevitable flare problems which occur in difficult lihting situations. That said, landscapes are rarely shot at wider apertures and most (not just Leica) lenses work well enough stopped down a bit.

[Ouroboros]

5 hours ago, Franka373 said:

Or idiocy on my part.  However, as noted above Fred Miranda does extensive testing of a lot of M lenses.  Also noted he came up with the 4 best landscape M lenses in his view.  I can’t find that post nor did I know he made that comment.  There must be a reason for why he would do that. He has concluded some lenses are better for landscape than others I think.  I don’t know. That why I ask the question. 

In my view, Fred is no landscape photographer.    

You already have a good set of lenses which are perfectly usable  for landscape photography.  Unless you regularly have a genuine need for lenses wider or longer than what you already have, don't allow yourself to be distracted or confused further with conflicting answers to an issue that does not exist. 

You'll find great landscape photography all over social media by myriad photographers who use everything from pinhole cameras, ancient lenses, the cheapest and the most expensive lenses that money can buy.  None of those photographers would probably give a flying feck about what Fred or anyone else thinks 'are the best lenses for landscape photography'.

Finding your own voice as a photographer is the key.

 

[Stuart Richardson]

I would agree in general with Ouroboros's statement, and I think that there are very few modern M mount lenses that are going to fail you when stopped down for landscapes. I am not sure how much Leica is specifically tailoring lenses to be "landscape" lenses, but I do think there are certain lenses that lend themselves well to it. For example, the 90mm APO Summicron is exceptionally good at infinity, but since it does not have a floating element, it is is not quite as good close up. That does not really affect is performance in most closer compositions, as generally a 90mm close up is going to be used for a portrait, while far away for a landscape. The 75mm APO Summicron, 135mm tele-elmar and 135mm APO Telyt are all other lenses on the long side that do very well for landscapes. In general, however, most Leica lenses do well in landscapes, though there are some that do suffer a bit more field curvature, and that can mess with the results a bit. Personally I tend to use more normal and long lenses for landscapes, but I find the 35mm 1.4 FLE quite good as well, though it is not razor sharp edge to edge wide open like, for example, the 35mm APO Summicron SL. As a general advice, if you really want to figure this out, learn how to read MTF charts (it is not that hard to get a basic read), and download the specs for the M lenses you are interested in. In my view they give quite a good idea of what to expect regarding sharpness across the frame.

[Lelmer]

1 hour ago, Ouroboros said:

In my view, Fred is no landscape photographer.    

You already have a good set of lenses which are perfectly usable  for landscape photography.  Unless you regularly have a genuine need for lenses wider or longer than what you already have, don't allow yourself to be distracted or confused further with conflicting answers to an issue that does not exist. 

You'll find great landscape photography all over social media by myriad photographers who use everything from pinhole cameras, ancient lenses, the cheapest and the most expensive lenses that money can buy.  None of those photographers would probably give a flying feck about what Fred or anyone else thinks 'are the best lenses for landscape photography'.

Finding your own voice as a photographer is the key.

 

I fully agree

Edited January 20, 2023 by Lelmer

[andybarton]

9 hours ago, RexGig0 said:

the E55 version of the Elmarit-R 28mm. This prompted me to add this lens to my evil bay watch list

I had a copy of that lens (the Second Version, with built in hood) and it was superb. I used it on my R8/DMR and then Leitaxed it for use on a D700, that I gave to our daughter.

I take a lot of landscape photographs, and it really was an outstanding performer. MY go-to landscape lens these days is the really excellent 24mm Elmarit-M ASPH

[LocalHero1953]

IIRC Tim Ashley (@tashley) (no relation!) reported here his studies of unusual field curvature of the Summilux-M 35 FLE and found it quite noticeable and distracting in urban landscapes. And also (IIRC) the latest Summilux 35 does not have that same issue.

One could argue that the ideal lens for landscape should have no field curvature, while strong curvature is actually quite handy for portraits, because it defocuses the surroundings of a centrally-placed figure. But I am neither a landscape photographer, nor a lens analyst, so what do I know?

Edited January 20, 2023 by LocalHero1953

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[Robert Blanko]

vor 11 Stunden schrieb Franka373:

I know that, quote, any lens can be a landscape lens but please give me minute to address my question.  It has been my anecdotal understanding that various Leica M lenses are optimized for various distances to get its best output, mainly close to middle distances. I may be wrong but over the years I have read this here and other forums.  So my question is are there M lenses that are optimized for landscapes where close up to infinity is sharp at f/8 to 11 or so. Am I way off base here?  If not which lenses lend themselves better for landscapes?  The lenses I have are the 28 summicron current version, the 50 APO, and the 90 elmarit last version. Thanks for your patience.  

Everything sharp from close up to infinity (in the same photo) will only work when using wide angle lenses. Just try playing with a DOF app, also taking into account diffraction limit. You cannot trick physics…

That said, my proven landscape performers are:

WATE

28 Elmarit

50 APO

75 APO

135 APO Telyt

All performed very well for my purposes.