SrMi Posted January 19, 2023 Share #21 Posted January 19, 2023 Advertisement (gone after registration) 53 minutes ago, Herr Barnack said: The M11 has made me hope fervently that Leica never decides to start making passenger jets. 😳 An acquaintance was in the cockpit of an Airbus when he witnessed the main computer freezing while in the air and requiring a reboot. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 19, 2023 Posted January 19, 2023 Hi SrMi, Take a look here Another M11 issues? Liveview. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Tom R Posted January 19, 2023 Share #22 Posted January 19, 2023 17 minutes ago, SrMi said: An acquaintance was in the cockpit of an Airbus when he witnessed the main computer freezing while in the air and requiring a reboot. Better that it happened in mid-flight and not during takeoff or landing! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trickness Posted January 19, 2023 Share #23 Posted January 19, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, elmars said: Forgive me for being blunt: Some people are always complaining that because Leica is so expensive, there shouldn't be any mistakes. As if Leica wanted to personally annoy or insult people like you. You can assume that they would rather take care of new things than troubleshooting. All manufacturers have their problems. For the top Canon/Sony/Nikon products, it's about 7%. I don't know how high it is at Leica, but it is said to be unusually low on the M11 (and the S). And: During the beta test there were massive crashes. I participated in this. With the release firmware there were no more. We also used different SD cards. The freezes are extremely annoying for those who are affected by them. Leica thought they had fixed most of it with 1.6.0.0. I guess they haven't, so they need to keep working. What’s your point here? If you’re saying that there were crashes and freezes that were reported in beta, and this problem made it out into the release of the camera, & that somehow is OK because they didn’t mean to make the mistake? Regardless of what Leica’s intent was or wasn’t, and regardless of how some people seem to want to make excuses or minimize the scope of the problem, here we have a video where a guy is on his third M11. And even some of their most adoring schills on YouTube have reported problems with their cameras as well. This is impacting the perception of reliability and value of the M11. And if they did have an idea that these problems might occur after the release of the camera (from beta testers) then that’s just staggeringly dumb business. I LOVE my SL2, as I did my SL. I like my Q2M even though it had a complete failure and replacement of the main board after a year of ownership. But none of those cameras have the whiff of fiasco that the M11 does. I certainly hope they get it together, and in no way “take it personally” other than to say there’s no way I personally would spend nine grand on one of these bodies right now. Edited January 19, 2023 by trickness 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
elmars Posted January 19, 2023 Share #24 Posted January 19, 2023 I said that there were no freezes at the end of the betatest. vor 12 Minuten schrieb trickness: This is impacting the perception of reliability and value of the M11. I agree and I hope that Leica is aware of this. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwimac Posted January 19, 2023 Share #25 Posted January 19, 2023 3 hours ago, elmars said: I said that there were no freezes at the end of the betatest. I agree and I hope that Leica is aware of this. I was talking to my dealer yesterday. He indicated in a fairly round about kind of way that from his experience the M11 was proving less popular with customers already in the system than it was with new customers. He did not theorise as to why. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herr Barnack Posted January 19, 2023 Share #26 Posted January 19, 2023 (edited) Quote ...He indicated in a fairly round about kind of way that from his experience the M11 was proving less popular with customers already in the system than it was with new customers... This statement makes me wonder if experienced M users are comparing the M11 to the M10 platform and finding that the M11 does not measure up to its predecessor in terms of reliability and functioning. Just a thought... Edited January 19, 2023 by Herr Barnack 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SrMi Posted January 19, 2023 Share #27 Posted January 19, 2023 Advertisement (gone after registration) 11 minutes ago, Kiwimac said: I was talking to my dealer yesterday. He indicated in a fairly round about kind of way that from his experience the M11 was proving less popular with customers already in the system than it was with new customers. He did not theorise as to why. I believe that M11 attracted much more first time M owners than previous models did. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herr Barnack Posted January 19, 2023 Share #28 Posted January 19, 2023 5 hours ago, SrMi said: An acquaintance was in the cockpit of an Airbus when he witnessed the main computer freezing while in the air and requiring a reboot. Did they have to pull the battery? 😎 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcaslis Posted January 19, 2023 Share #29 Posted January 19, 2023 27 minutes ago, SrMi said: I believe that M11 attracted much more first time M owners than previous models did. As a first time M user, I would agree with this. Changes like removal of the bottom plate with the new access to battery and use of a Sony 60MP sensor are among the reasons I looked at and eventually bought the M11. My local camera dealer seems to be selling them at a slow but steady pace and I don't remember them ever commenting on M sales before. I've had the camera for three weeks now and had it freeze twice, both fixed by removing the battery. While not great, I've had Nikons and Canons that did the same. Now if the shutter breaks like the YT video shows, I'll be upset, but I do agree that the M11 seems more attractive to non-M users than previous models. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Photoworks Posted January 19, 2023 Share #30 Posted January 19, 2023 7 minutes ago, Herr Barnack said: Did they have to pull the battery? 😎 Luckily Boing didn't have any problem of software, or battery. WOW Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SrMi Posted January 20, 2023 Share #31 Posted January 20, 2023 17 minutes ago, Photoworks said: Luckily Boing didn't have any problem of software, or battery. WOW Unfortunately, Boeing did have software issues: Boeing 737 MAX groundings Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted January 20, 2023 Share #32 Posted January 20, 2023 54 minutes ago, SrMi said: I believe that M11 attracted much more first time M owners than previous models did. Not even close. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SrMi Posted January 20, 2023 Share #33 Posted January 20, 2023 28 minutes ago, Herr Barnack said: Did they have to pull the battery? 😎 There was an on/off switch behind the instrument panel, IIRC. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwimac Posted January 20, 2023 Share #34 Posted January 20, 2023 37 minutes ago, Herr Barnack said: Did they have to pull the battery? 😎 I think that Maintenance had used the wrong brand of SD card…! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
david strachan Posted January 20, 2023 Share #35 Posted January 20, 2023 2 hours ago, SrMi said: I believe that M11 attracted much more first time M owners than previous models did. Mmmm...not sure about that. I think the early first Leica digitals did very well...the first M8 and the M9, and derivatives. It'd be interesting to see the M production figures...including all the film M's vs all the digital M's. Anyone got those numbers? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jk1002 Posted January 20, 2023 Share #36 Posted January 20, 2023 We shall not forget that you will get the Leica Experience from older models as well, I am still running a M262 and only miss ability to focus in low light which deems to be tricky. Also for us in the US the price increase between M10 at launch and M10-R or M11 is significant, so that may deter some. How many public complaints about failure requiring repair from unique user do we actually have? 10 if at all? They must have sold 1000s by now Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M11 for me Posted January 20, 2023 Share #37 Posted January 20, 2023 I think that we do not really know about numbers and who is buying the M11 (new to Leica or upgrades). It is probably a fact that M10-R users tend to wait for an upgrade. But not the M10 or M9 users. I was an M10 user and the M11 is a big step up. Details to that we can read in other threads. In the other freeze thread I proposed to make a survey here in the forum. I am very sorry for all the problems that we can read. But me personally I am 100% happy with the M11 and I have zero issues. Within one year I had 1 freeze. That was long ago. I presume that the majority of the users have cameras like I have. That is why I would like the survey. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakontil Posted January 20, 2023 Author Share #38 Posted January 20, 2023 21 minutes ago, M11 for me said: I think that we do not really know about numbers and who is buying the M11 (new to Leica or upgrades). It is probably a fact that M10-R users tend to wait for an upgrade. But not the M10 or M9 users. I was an M10 user and the M11 is a big step up. Details to that we can read in other threads. In the other freeze thread I proposed to make a survey here in the forum. I am very sorry for all the problems that we can read. But me personally I am 100% happy with the M11 and I have zero issues. Within one year I had 1 freeze. That was long ago. I presume that the majority of the users have cameras like I have. That is why I would like the survey. I tend to agree with you, being myself an m10r user, it’s very incremental, but i love the battery and the usb c port and i kept saying that, my case too not many freezes that bother me much, 3 since i got it last june? And solved when i turn off standby mode *knock on wood* but yeah other not so fortunate, including a couple of friends whose liveview dont work as intended, and they relied heavily as wedding photographers Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted January 20, 2023 Share #39 Posted January 20, 2023 1 hour ago, M11 for me said: In the other freeze thread I proposed to make a survey here in the forum. I am very sorry for all the problems that we can read. But me personally I am 100% happy with the M11 and I have zero issues. Within one year I had 1 freeze. That was long ago. I presume that the majority of the users have cameras like I have. That is why I would like the survey. Did you ask admin or a moderator about such a survey? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 20, 2023 Share #40 Posted January 20, 2023 2 hours ago, M11 for me said: I think that we do not really know about numbers and who is buying the M11 (new to Leica or upgrades). It is probably a fact that M10-R users tend to wait for an upgrade. But not the M10 or M9 users. I was an M10 user and the M11 is a big step up. Details to that we can read in other threads. In the other freeze thread I proposed to make a survey here in the forum. I am very sorry for all the problems that we can read. But me personally I am 100% happy with the M11 and I have zero issues. Within one year I had 1 freeze. That was long ago. I presume that the majority of the users have cameras like I have. That is why I would like the survey. A forum survey is rather useless. People with complaints tend to post them on this forum, people without not. The threads are a useful indication for Leica, but the statistical bias is highly misleading. So you get ten posts claiming a fault and one reporting a camera without problems; does that prove that 9000 out of 10.000 cameras are faulty? 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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