adan Posted January 17, 2023 Share #21 Posted January 17, 2023 Advertisement (gone after registration) 3 hours ago, Jeffry Abt said: Please someone explain the advantages and disadvantages between the two. SC = Single Coated; one layer of a metal oxide on the lens elements to reduce reflections, and thus some kinds of flare. Standard for lenses made 1945-1970 or thereabouts MC = Multi Coated; multiple layers of metal oxide deposits to reduce reflections and flare even more - phased in as industry standard beginning around 1970 (Zeiss T* lenses, Pentax SMC (Super-Multi-Coated), Canon SSC (Super-Spectra-Coated), etc.) Pictures made with an SC lens will tend to make pictures that are slightly hazier and softer in overall contrast and specific other types of flare patches - and of course have the nostalgic look of the original pre-1970 SC-by-default lenses. Pictures made with MC lenses will have more contrast and apparent clarity - they will not actually have more resolution, but they may look sharper. Voigtländer/Cosina has made it a "thing" to provide some lenses with either MC or SC coating, for those seeking modern clarity, and those preferring the pre-1970ish softness of contrast (adding to any soft-focus or smooth-bokeh effect the glass design itself may produce). 6 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 17, 2023 Posted January 17, 2023 Hi adan, Take a look here Voigtlander Ultron 75mm f/1.9. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
sometimesmaybe Posted January 17, 2023 Author Share #22 Posted January 17, 2023 6 hours ago, jaeger said: The thing is, I can make any sharp/modern rendering to dreamy/vintage/classic/glow in post, but I can never make them backward. i think it works both ways, a lot of good vintage glass sharpens up nicely from f5.6. a good photographer can use whatever tool to get the job done, but sometimes it's just easier to have the right tool in the 1st place. it's a matter for each of us to work out if we have the right tool for the job we have 🙂 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Product Details (Product Details) More about Voigtlander 75 mm F1.9 Ultron SC Available at Amazon and B&H Photo Video
jaapv Posted January 18, 2023 Share #23 Posted January 18, 2023 Indeed. I process my images as well as I can. I like to do them justice and the camera output is just a half-product. The upside is that I spent more time in the darkroom in the past than I do now in Photoshop, despite striving for the optimum result. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hdmesa Posted January 18, 2023 Share #24 Posted January 18, 2023 8 hours ago, Jeffry Abt said: Please someone explain the advantages and disadvantages between the two. SC = single coated: lower contrast, slightly smoother bokeh, slightly more subdued color, slightly more vintage rendering overall, more prominent flare MC = multi-coated: higher contrast in both the image and the bokeh, modern color and rendering, less flare 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted January 18, 2023 Share #25 Posted January 18, 2023 Looks like it would make a good partner to a 35mm f1.4 nokton ii sc. Buy one and there’s a good chance you’ll add the other. Nice move, Cosina! 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith (M) Posted January 18, 2023 Share #26 Posted January 18, 2023 5 hours ago, Ouroboros said: Looks like it would make a good partner to a 35mm f1.4 nokton ii sc. Buy one and there’s a good chance you’ll add the other. Nice move, Cosina! Get thee behind me Satan! (Took delivery of the 35mm Nokton ii f1.4 SC last week). 1 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
drew.saunders Posted January 18, 2023 Share #27 Posted January 18, 2023 Advertisement (gone after registration) On 1/16/2023 at 9:55 PM, adan said: It restores some of the "character" of the 75mm f/1.8 Heliar Classic that the Nokton replaced, I would guess. As well as being more compact and lighter than either (Nokton uses 58mm filters/335g, the new lens is 49mm/290g; the Heliar f/1.8 was 52mm filters and a hefty 427g). I also note this new Ultron focuses to 0.5 meters, for those who use live-view or an EVF. Oh, thanks for listing the weights! I like my 75/1.8 Heliar Classic, but it is on the hefty side. If the Heliar is so desirable that I can find someone who wants to buy it for the cost of the Ultron, I'd consider this new lens. When I've used my Heliar on my APS-C Fuji camera, the 0.9M MFD is a bit of a hindrance. I hope there's a "bump" at 0.7m or so on the Ultron to prevent "under-focusing" on a Leica M. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted January 18, 2023 Share #28 Posted January 18, 2023 (edited) 8 hours ago, Keith (M) said: Get thee behind me Satan! (Took delivery of the 35mm Nokton ii f1.4 SC last week). I expect your credit card is about to take another hit, then! Edited January 18, 2023 by Ouroboros 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
6bit Posted January 20, 2023 Share #29 Posted January 20, 2023 Voigtlander just keeps pumping out lenses. I believe I will pick up a MC version of this lens. Sorta related but off topic slightly: Does anyone know how Voigtlander deicides what lenses get silver coated vs just black? Is there a reason to their madness? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simone_DF Posted January 20, 2023 Share #30 Posted January 20, 2023 On 1/18/2023 at 11:20 PM, Ouroboros said: I expect your credit card is about to take another hit, then! MY credit card is about to take another hit for sure. (I also have the 35mm 1.4II, I opted for the MC version though) 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olaf_ZG Posted January 20, 2023 Share #31 Posted January 20, 2023 On 1/18/2023 at 4:09 PM, Keith (M) said: Get thee behind me Satan! (Took delivery of the 35mm Nokton ii f1.4 SC last week). My trio for portraits is the 35mm sc, a sonnar 50mm and the nokton 75. The latter is really great, but rather big, so I use it on the SL. For sure this new lens could replace my 75 though… Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BradS Posted January 21, 2023 Share #32 Posted January 21, 2023 (edited) On 1/16/2023 at 2:01 PM, sometimesmaybe said: Hi all CV has just launched a new 75mm f1.9 - Sonnar layout Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! An interesting offering but it looks like Double Gauss - not a Sonar. Edited January 21, 2023 by BradS Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted January 21, 2023 Share #33 Posted January 21, 2023 2 hours ago, BradS said: An interesting offering but it looks like Double Gauss - not a Sonar. Hmmm - how do you figure that? A Double-Gauss, as the name suggests, is nominally symmetrical around the aperture (one "Gauss" formulation in front, a second almost-mirror-image one in back). Like the most classic of Leitz/Leica DGs, the 50 Summicrons: Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! The double-gauss idea is that aberrations created by the front half are "cancelled out" by the back half. This new 75 is not symmetrical in lens shapes or spacing, and is in fact somewhat reminisicent of the Zeiss 50mm f/1.5 Sonnar (and for that matter the 75mm f/1.5 Nokton, minus the aspheric element). Four major elements ahead of the aperture, three quite different elements behind. (image linked from wikipedia.) However, it is the case that the speed of modern optical design computers allow lens designers to "go off the reservation" more easily and try mix-and-matched or totally original lens configurations, rather than stick with the old, long-ago-precalculated formulas. And so these days one can find lenses that are half one and half the other, or use really unique innovations such as the "glasses" applied to the front and back of a DG to create the 35mm f/1.4 Summilux-ASPH line, with better-corrected spherical aberration. 5 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! The double-gauss idea is that aberrations created by the front half are "cancelled out" by the back half. This new 75 is not symmetrical in lens shapes or spacing, and is in fact somewhat reminisicent of the Zeiss 50mm f/1.5 Sonnar (and for that matter the 75mm f/1.5 Nokton, minus the aspheric element). Four major elements ahead of the aperture, three quite different elements behind. (image linked from wikipedia.) However, it is the case that the speed of modern optical design computers allow lens designers to "go off the reservation" more easily and try mix-and-matched or totally original lens configurations, rather than stick with the old, long-ago-precalculated formulas. And so these days one can find lenses that are half one and half the other, or use really unique innovations such as the "glasses" applied to the front and back of a DG to create the 35mm f/1.4 Summilux-ASPH line, with better-corrected spherical aberration. ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/361820-voigtlander-ultron-75mm-f19/?do=findComment&comment=4652933'>More sharing options...
eyeheartny Posted January 21, 2023 Share #34 Posted January 21, 2023 20 minutes ago, adan said: Hmmm - how do you figure that? A Double-Gauss, as the name suggests, is nominally symmetrical around the aperture (one "Gauss" formulation in front, a second almost-mirror-image one in back). Like the most classic of Leitz/Leica DGs, the 50 Summicrons: Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! The double-gauss idea is that aberrations created by the front half are "cancelled out" by the back half. This new 75 is not symmetrical in lens shapes or spacing, and is in fact somewhat reminisicent of the Zeiss 50mm f/1.5 Sonnar (and for that matter the 75mm f/1.5 Nokton, minus the aspheric element). Four major elements ahead of the aperture, three quite different elements behind. (image linked from wikipedia.) However, it is the case that the speed of modern optical design computers allow lens designers to "go off the reservation" more easily and try mix-and-matched or totally original lens configurations, rather than stick with the old, long-ago-precalculated formulas. And so these days one can find lenses that are half one and half the other, or use really unique innovations such as the "glasses" applied to the front and back of a DG to create the 35mm f/1.4 Summilux-ASPH line, with better-corrected spherical aberration. This type of knowledge and comment is what is so impressive about this forum. Appreciate this very much and always enjoy learning about this stuff! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BradS Posted January 21, 2023 Share #35 Posted January 21, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, adan said: Hmmm - how do you figure that? A Double-Gauss, as the name suggests, is nominally symmetrical around the aperture (one "Gauss" formulation in front, a second almost-mirror-image one in back). Like the most classic of Leitz/Leica DGs, the 50 Summicrons: Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! The double-gauss idea is that aberrations created by the front half are "cancelled out" by the back half. This new 75 is not symmetrical in lens shapes or spacing, and is in fact somewhat reminisicent of the Zeiss 50mm f/1.5 Sonnar (and for that matter the 75mm f/1.5 Nokton, minus the aspheric element). Four major elements ahead of the aperture, three quite different elements behind. (image linked from wikipedia.) However, it is the case that the speed of modern optical design computers allow lens designers to "go off the reservation" more easily and try mix-and-matched or totally original lens configurations, rather than stick with the old, long-ago-precalculated formulas. And so these days one can find lenses that are half one and half the other, or use really unique innovations such as the "glasses" applied to the front and back of a DG to create the 35mm f/1.4 Summilux-ASPH line, with better-corrected spherical aberration. Granted, this new 75mm f/1.9 lens is neither the classic 6/4 Double Gauss nor the classic 7/3 Sonnar but it looks a lot closer to a variation of a Double Gauss than to a Sonar. When I think of Sonar, I think of the rear cemented group with three elements behind the stop. The rear group of a sonar has a very distinct design - as your example shows. That's not what we see in this new offering from C-V. There are many variations on the classic 6/4 Double Gauss design that deviate from that classic 6 elements in 4 groups design - the 50mm Summicron rigid and collapsible as well as the 50mm f/1.4 Nikkor-S come to mind. The double Gauss characteristically has two cemented groups of two elements each around the stop. This new 75mm lens has that pair of cemented doublets symmetrically arranged around the stop which is why it looks very much like the modified Double Gauss designs to me. For more information, see the section about variations on double Gauss in following article... https://www.pencilofrays.com/double-gauss-sonnar-comparison/ Edited January 21, 2023 by BradS 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alberti Posted January 23, 2023 Share #36 Posted January 23, 2023 (edited) On 1/21/2023 at 5:44 PM, BradS said: An interesting offering but it looks like Double Gauss - not a Sonnar. Totally agree. A Double gauss has a symetrical design, of basically on both sides of the aperture: +/- : -/+ and then as an extra correction , a positive lens in front and ditto on the back. WIKI page: Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! So this new 75mm VC lens falls under the formula +/ +/ +/- : -/+ /+ if my shorthand is understandable. 1) I do not see that a size difference makes it non-gauss. 2) And that there are two positive elements up front is seen before. 3) Nor does the fact that the lens elements have different shapes where they are cemented, in the group in the back. It is still 'negative/positive' A Sonnar has a group of three elements. That is imho the main thing that was invented here. bertele made in a special construction related of the whole group with some over- and undercorrection specifically designed. Compare the Summarit 75mm: this also has differing sizes and variable shapes of the lenses as the computation allowed - Leica: "The lens is a double Gauss lens incorporating six lenses in four groups. There are three lenses each placed on the front and the back the aperture, with the lens reducing the field curvature arranged closely to the image plane. Four lenses are made of special glass types with anomalous partial dispersion, two of which have a very high refractive power. “ It is in my experience very good (and modern). Edited January 23, 2023 by Alberti 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! So this new 75mm VC lens falls under the formula +/ +/ +/- : -/+ /+ if my shorthand is understandable. 1) I do not see that a size difference makes it non-gauss. 2) And that there are two positive elements up front is seen before. 3) Nor does the fact that the lens elements have different shapes where they are cemented, in the group in the back. It is still 'negative/positive' A Sonnar has a group of three elements. That is imho the main thing that was invented here. bertele made in a special construction related of the whole group with some over- and undercorrection specifically designed. Compare the Summarit 75mm: this also has differing sizes and variable shapes of the lenses as the computation allowed - Leica: "The lens is a double Gauss lens incorporating six lenses in four groups. There are three lenses each placed on the front and the back the aperture, with the lens reducing the field curvature arranged closely to the image plane. Four lenses are made of special glass types with anomalous partial dispersion, two of which have a very high refractive power. “ It is in my experience very good (and modern). ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/361820-voigtlander-ultron-75mm-f19/?do=findComment&comment=4655349'>More sharing options...
S Maclean Posted January 23, 2023 Share #37 Posted January 23, 2023 (edited) On 1/16/2023 at 9:49 PM, jaeger said: Why is it better than 75mm 1.5? I am thinking the size mainly? I have the 1.5 and in terms of performance for portraits it is hard to beat. I actually just used it yesterday and took this shot wide open with an M11. I am surprised at how easy I focused the shot at 1.5 on a moving crazy animal (one of my dogs) The result is great. But If the 1.9 renders even more vintage and is much smaller in size there is an argument there.... CV Sure is giving LEica a run for their money. (Vignette added with LR) Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited January 23, 2023 by S Maclean Vignette 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/361820-voigtlander-ultron-75mm-f19/?do=findComment&comment=4655364'>More sharing options...
hdmesa Posted January 23, 2023 Share #38 Posted January 23, 2023 40 minutes ago, S Maclean said: I am thinking the size mainly?... + MFD of 0.5m and a single-coated version 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith (M) Posted January 23, 2023 Share #39 Posted January 23, 2023 Latest newsletter from UK dealer Robert White:- the lens can now be pre-ordered - priced at £699. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S Maclean Posted January 23, 2023 Share #40 Posted January 23, 2023 2 hours ago, hdmesa said: + MFD of 0.5m and a single-coated version I’ll take the speed over the mfd. On the single coat I can’t wait to see how it renders once we get real use images 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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