Capture One or Lightroom Classic for M11

[Corius]

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Hi,

I'm struggling to decide whether to use C1 or LRc for M11 RAW processing. "Unfortunately" I have licenses for both and find myself ping-ponging between both without being able to decide which to focus on.

Both have their plus and minus points, but I need someone who has used both to kick me in the ass and tell me which one to focus on.

Your advice is greatly appreciated.

[hansvons]

If you want an app that organises your shots in a vast catalogue, go for LR.

f you rather have single folders for each project that can be pushed around as you please without risking reopening the project at some point in the future (C1 Sessions), go for C1.

If a fast editing pace is what you want because you learned that eye fatigue would come your way sooner than later and jeopardise your work, go for C1.

If you like a powerful toolset, go for C1.

If you want AI stuff as soon as possible, LR will be earlier in that business.

If you want the industry's most accurate colours, go for C1.

If you want to tinker with custom profiles, go for C1.

If approx 200 euros annually is too much, go for LR.

If you want a simpler version for mobile, go for LR.

 

I have both; I need Adobe's abo for work. But I don't use LR because I find C1 the better fit for me, and the interface is much nicer - you eat with your eyes! YMMV, of course.

 

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[LocalHero1953]

1 hour ago, hansvons said:

If a fast editing pace is what you want because you learned that eye fatigue would come your way sooner than later and jeopardise your work, go for C1.

I don't use C1, but I don't find LR slow - what is it about C1 that makes it quicker?

[luetz]

Stick with the software that is easiest to get the results you desire.  There isn't one that is "a lot" better than the other.  I tried both and returned to LRC for overall features.  Depending on your location the cost is minimal and the additional access to PS,Bridge and LR mobile make it a better option.

[hansvons]

2 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

I don't use C1, but I don't find LR slow - what is it about C1 that makes it quicker?

• Culling is as fast as possible with a super-quick preview that allows for critical focus checking as you wade through your shots.
• Using Sessions, import is super-fast.
• Machine learning helps to create groups that are based on motives.
• The same works later in the editing process with Smart Adjustments, a kind of mini-preset that speeds up the editing process.
• You can customise your toolset to your liking and save serval working spaces with a tailored toolset, eg B&W negative capture or colour images from a particular camera.
• Export supports tokens in endless configs allowing exports from Instagram to super-sized print tiffs in one go.
• On an M1 Mac, C1 fires up as quickly as Word or Outlook, just as any regular app. 
• With some knowledge, you can create your own camera profile that may include your desired contrasts and colour setting. You only have to tweak the exposure and lift the shadows or recover highlights. I have my own profile for the SL2-S and Delta 400. That alone cuts time tremendously. These profiles are Input-ICC files that are practically LUTs, including transform information.
• The toolset is of the highest quality and as snappy as one can wish on the M1.

There's much more to it, of course. But these are the main reasons why I stay with C1.

[Luke_Miller]

6 hours ago, luetz said:

Stick with the software that is easiest to get the results you desire.  There isn't one that is "a lot" better than the other.  

I agree with this.  I've used both since forever.  I use Lightroom for its catalog features, and (mostly) process in C1. Both are excellent, but in all likelihood you will find one is easier to use.  Pick that one.

Edited January 17, 2023 by Luke_Miller

[bill_murray]

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Assuming the OP is an amateur photographer, with an expensive camera, then why would they want to go at it like a bull in a china shop? Post processing can be enjoyed as a slow, iterative and considered process, so as to derive the most from their photography, and their valuable kit. 

LRc is a pleasure to use. 

Edited January 17, 2023 by bill_murray

[M11 for me]

I do not know C1 any more I used it a few years ago. Today's Lightroom Classic features I think are terrific. How you can choose an "object", "sky", a special person of a group just with a click. Maybe C1 has all these features as well. If not then I would not like to be without that anymore. Plus I like the plugins of Smugmug and others, incl. Photoshop. That implementation is simply great. I wonder then if it makes really a difference when some think that C1 has the industry best colours. Tat is certainly important. But is it really so different that you could not get the same with LR?

However I think that Lightroom Classic improves bit by bit and new strong ng features are added. I believe that it's a great product. 

But everybody knows somebody who switched from one to the other. There must be reasons. I will stay with LR Classic. 

[hansvons]

58 minutes ago, M11 for me said:

But everybody knows somebody who switched from one to the other.

That's an important point. Both have their advantages and disadvantages. And, as with camera systems, people switch out of desperation to fighting photographers' blocks or just for entertainment, and, sometimes, for meaningful reasons. Plus, there are many who love tinkering with images without the need to deliver timely. But that's not me. Spending time editing photos is not leisure time for me, albeit I like doing it but not longer than 2 hours. By then, I want to have a shooting day wrapped as eye fatigue kicks in.

 

58 minutes ago, M11 for me said:

Plus I like the plugins of Smugmug and others, incl. Photoshop. That implementation is simply great.

C1 is seamlessly connected to photoshop. But more importantly, C1 offers a layer tool that allows for extensive touch-ups, matte and whatnot. In many cases, PS is not needed anymore. The prospect of roundtripping apps is a nightmare for me. Others love that. 

 

58 minutes ago, M11 for me said:

I wonder then if it makes really a difference when some think that C1 has the industry best colours. Tat is certainly important. But is it really so different that you could not get the same with LR?

That is what pros say who do pack shots and other CI-conscious work in collaboration with agencies (there's a dedicated C1 collaboration tool for remote sessions). I used to do that in the advertising industry's film department, and I know how critical that can be. However, if you look at it from a creative point of view, choose whatever you like better. 

Edited January 17, 2023 by hansvons

[LocalHero1953]

I find it difficult to get unbiased answers to questions I have about Capture One vis-a-vs Lightroom. Like others I am intrigued by the regular comments about how good the C1 raw conversion is. But when I look into other matters such as where edits are stored, ease of sharing of images (with edits) across the cloud, availability of plugins, it is difficult to get beyond strong partisans and misinformation (not in the LUF, I should emphasise). One site said that the way image edits were stored with sessions (not files) was an improvement on "other applications" that stored the edits in the catalog ; actually LR keeping the edits in an XMP sidecar makes it easy for me to edit on my Macbook, and continue on my PC desktop. Storing edits just by sessions would be a retrograde step (I now know this is not the only way to store edits in C1). 

Things I'm interested in (apart from the better raw conversion) include plugins (I use a Format.com plugin that allows me to link LR collections to my website); portability of edited raws; ability to distribute images for download by clients online; AI editing tools/masking; noise reduction and sharpening (I use Topaz now). I would expect that I would identify other issues that I currently take for granted in LR but would miss in C1. At the moment I don't know if those would be important or not.

I don't doubt that there are good things about both systems, but I'd welcome recommendations to any dispassionate/honest comparisons!

[frame-it]

in LR command-S saves all metadata including develop setting  to the dng or sidecar xmp file

in C1, just go to adjustment-styles-save user style

all the data is nicely saved in the styles folder inside   /Users/[your user name]/Library/Application Support/Capture One

and can be backed up or shared amongst multiple computers

[hansvons]

25 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

I don't doubt that there are good things about both systems, but I'd welcome recommendations to any dispassionate/honest comparisons!

It's an easy answer; there is no such thing as a dispassionate answer that will come to a satisfying conclusion, as both applications differ in many ways and cater to different markets/needs. 

With C1 Sessions as opposed to LR Catalogue and the decade-old legacy of tethered shooting, initially, C1 caters to the studio folks who work with agencies. A friend of mine is running a fashion label. Every other fortnight or so, they have to shoot models in front of a white fond. The photographer who runs that for them uses C1. 

Another friend is a commercial director who does here and then assignments in stills photography and photographs privately for the family. He uses LR as it comes with the inevitable Adobe subscription and never thought of switching to C1 as LRC does for him what he wants.

I use C1 because I found LRC's interface intimidating and fiddly when I first opened it. I then switched to LR "online" as the interface is better, but feature-wise it didn't cut the mustard for me. So, I looked into C1. C1 looked more likeable and more streamlined to me as LRC and did what I expected it to do. After some time, I established a workflow that allowed for consistent results in a short time; hence I stayed with C1. 

Edited January 17, 2023 by hansvons

[LocalHero1953]

18 minutes ago, hansvons said:

It's an easy answer; there is no such thing as a dispassionate answer that will come to a satisfying conclusion, as both applications differ in many ways and cater to different markets/needs. 

With C1 Sessions as opposed to LR Catalogue and the decade-old legacy of tethered shooting, initially, C1 caters to the studio folks who work with agencies. A friend of mine is running a fashion label. Every other fortnight or so, they have to shoot models in front of a white fond. The photographer who runs that for them uses C1. 

Another friend is a commercial director who does here and then assignments in stills photography and photographs privately for the family. He uses LR as it comes with the inevitable Adobe subscription and never thought of switching to C1 as LRC does for him what he wants.

I use C1 because I found LRC's interface intimidating and fiddly when I first opened it. I then switched to LR "online" as the interface is better, but feature-wise it didn't cut the mustard for me. So, I looked into C1. C1 looked more likeable and more streamlined to me as LRC and did what I expected it to do. After some time, I established a workflow that allowed for consistent results in a short time; hence I stayed with C1. 

I can see I shall have to find some clear time for a free trial of C1 to judge for myself. I did so quite a few years ago and didn't like the interface, whereas I took to Lightroom v3 like a duck to water!

Edited January 17, 2023 by LocalHero1953

[SrMi]

This issues are essential for me:

- C1 does not support Leica's Perspective Control.

- Lightroom has more powerful masking tools, and supports GPS coordinates.

There are some confusing changes in C1's licensing model that may force some people to their subscription model, which is more expensive than Adobe's. You may want to check the details before committing to C1.

 

[SrMi]

Kevin Raber, a long-time Capture One advocate (his skirmishes with his friend Jeff Schewe, an Adobe advocate, are well known), has written a very critical article about C1's recent changes to a subscription model.

Capture One – We Are Breaking Up

Maybe if enough C1 users complain, C1 will reverse or improve its new direction.

[hansvons]

On 1/17/2023 at 7:56 PM, SrMi said:

C1 does not support Leica's Perspective Control.

It has Auto Keystone. Same sort of thing. 

 

On 1/17/2023 at 7:56 PM, SrMi said:

There are some confusing changes in C1's licensing model that may force some people to their subscription model, which is more expensive than Adobe's. You may want to check the details before committing to C1.

The rejection that subscription gets is somewhat of a generational thing. The students I talk to don’t complain. On the contrary, they like the idea of not committing to ownership but keeping things in the flow.
 

As I learned from friends from Autodesk, for the developer, subscription makes much more sense as revenues come in constantly and R&D is better plannable. That benefits the user as well. If one suspects exploitation of the customer, the faith into the markets is pretty weak. If ownership of everything is your thing, that’s fine but that concept will go the Dodo’s way inevitably. Everyone, of course, can vote with their wallet, but don't be disappointed, if the market isn't going your way.

As a side note, I don’t understand people's complaints about editing software costs. When I’m wading through the forum’s threads, I read stories about buying Noctiluxes or M11s, the freshly purchased Hasselblad; there’s even a thread about “what did you buy recently”. Poverty isn’t an issue, obviously.

But if everyone moves over to the de-facto monopolist Adobe out of greed, we’ll all be worse off in the long run. I know there are valid reasons to subscribe to the behemoth’s services (I do as well), but others offer exciting alternatives. In the professional photo editing market, that is C1 at 15 EUR per month.

I’d argue that quick and satisfying editing is more critical for photography than the next camera body or fancy lens. Nonetheless, I do understand that for many cameras and optics are more accessible and more fun to use in the process. And that’s why these forums are mostly about gear and not software. But the latter is as important for photography as the darkroom was when photography was analogue. 

 

 

 

[jaapv]

If one has to ask in a forum LR or C1 I would suggest that there are more options  on prosumer level that might be more suitable for the OP.  Luminar, ON1, DXO, even Mac Photos (free) or Gimp (free) can yield excellent results and attractive options. 

[SrMi]

7 hours ago, hansvons said:

It has Auto Keystone. Same sort of thing. 

Auto Keystone gives you often different and often weird results. It is different from LPC. Auto Keystone uses hints in the image to guess the corrections, while LPC records two angles at the time of the shot. The LPC guides are also beneficial for properly leveling the camera and assuming the crop when the correction is applied. Note that LPC is tunable in post and optional even when turned on during shooting.

7 hours ago, hansvons said:

The rejection that subscription gets is somewhat of a generational thing. The students I talk to don’t complain. On the contrary, they like the idea of not committing to ownership but keeping things in the flow.

For the longest time, the subscription model was quoted as an important reason people left Adobe for C1.
I also like the subscription model. But I do not think it is OK for a "perpetual" license to cease once you start using the subscription model. 

Edited January 20, 2023 by SrMi