M11, happy launch anniversary.

[Photoworks]

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3 minutes ago, setuporg said:

I think that returning separate light meter as an option would be useful.

there are many separate lightmeters out there, you don't need one from Leica.

u don't have to reply, I know what you want, the M9 light meter in the M11. sorry but you got the M10-R for that, everything else it nonsense. 

[hdmesa]

1 hour ago, Photoworks said:

there are many separate lightmeters out there, you don't need one from Leica.

u don't have to reply, I know what you want, the M9 light meter in the M11. sorry but you got the M10-R for that, everything else it nonsense. 

No one wants the light meter back because it has any value versus off-sensor metering. The value of the old light meter is it allows for a shutter actuation that is a simple, fast, quiet click, unlike the current M11 shutter, which sounds like a big mechanical stapler going through a thick stack of paper.

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[SrMi]

1 hour ago, setuporg said:

I think that returning separate light meter as an option would be useful.

IMO, as useful as switching back to non-synchronized transmission :).

[SrMi]

34 minutes ago, hdmesa said:

No one wants the light meter back because it has any value versus off-sensor metering. The value of the old light meter is it allows for a shutter actuation that is a simple, fast, quiet click, unlike the current M11 shutter, which sounds like a big mechanical stapler going through a thick stack of paper.

Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater!
Very few owners seem to be bothered about the sound to be willing to give up on the benefits (better LV, less flare, more metering options in RF mode). Still, I would like to have EFCS implemented. 

[hdmesa]

6 minutes ago, SrMi said:

Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater!
Very few owners seem to be bothered about the sound to be willing to give up on the benefits (better LV, less flare, more metering options in RF mode). Still, I would like to have EFCS implemented. 

I agree, and I'd still own the M11 if it hadn't been freezing up occasionally. I love the accuracy of the off-sensor metering, I just wish we had a quieter shutter, however that happens. EFCS would be a start. If we see EFCS in the SL3, then we might have a chance of getting it in an M. But it could be the added complexity of firmware to implement EFCS is just too much for Leica's available resources. Fixing the delay to reopen the shutter at the end of a single-shot exposure would help shorten the perceived time to take an image, too. I'm hopeful they will eventually fix that in firmware.

[lct]

3 hours ago, setuporg said:

I think that returning separate light meter as an option would be useful.

I don't like much the shutter actuation of the M11 for sure but i like even less the LV mode of the M10. Some M10 cameras are still offered for people less interested in LV than i am so there is already a solution for them. Pitting M11 against M10 as some seem to do here makes no more sense than pitting front against rear engine in a range of cars with both.

[LikameLeica]

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I ❤️my M11. 📷

[tjxism]

On 1/21/2023 at 1:09 PM, lct said:

I don't like much the shutter actuation of the M11 for sure but i like even less the LV mode of the M10. Some M10 cameras are still offered for people less interested in LV than i am so there is already a solution for them. Pitting M11 against M10 as some seem to do here makes no more sense than pitting front against rear engine in a range of cars with both.

Exactly. Anyone who’s used pre-11 Ms must admit the new shutter implementation much improves the LV performance, which is quite essential for focusing for a 60mp sensor, even if curtain metering isn’t faulty. However, I still think there are improvement to be adopted. Like introducing electronic front curtain shutter,  which is provided on almost every digital camera with electronic shutter. 

[charlesphoto99]

I could probably count the number of times I used LV on my M10/M10-R on one hand. How about Leica make an M11 (or whatever number) without live view implementation at all? Call it the C version for 'Classic.' 

[satijntje]

vor einer Stunde schrieb charlesphoto99:

How about Leica make an M11 (or whatever number) without live view implementation at all? Call it the C version for 'Classic.' 

Or make a M11 classic with the M10-R body and the M11 sensor. That would be a nice combo! 

[setuporg]

Exactly.  The M isn't about some damn "live view," it's about range finding.  The real live view is life, through the OVF.  In that sense the M9 was the one and only M that would preclude even thinking about it.

Also the new sensor requires the Maestro 3 processor so other things had to give in the M10-R.

1 minute ago, satijntje said:

Or make a M11 classic with the M10-R body and the M11 sensor. That would be a nice combo! 

Edited January 30 by setuporg

[Herr Barnack]

On 1/16/2023 at 8:30 PM, Harout62 said:

If this thread is about the 1 year experience with the M11. Why do we have to read about why people did not buy one and why they chose an M10R , or how great and happy they are with their M10R.  Lol. 
 I think I am going to start posting on the M10 pages on how happy I am with my M11. , post pictures of my M11 , and keep telling everyone on why I traded my M10R FOR MY M11. 

We who do not own an M11 have great joy brought to our lives by annoying those who do have an M11, that's all.  Please do not take it personally, we just enjoy being annoying.

By the way...  Have I ever told you how wonderful my M10 Monochrome is?  Or how it never freezes?  Or how the shutter is lightning fast with a velvety, beautiful sound?  Or how deliriously happy my M10M makes me?  I'm just getting warmed up - let's meet at a bistro for coffee and croissants and I'll give you the deluxe three hour long opera version.  😁

[SrMi]

3 minutes ago, Herr Barnack said:

Or how the shutter is lightning fast

What does a "lightning fast shutter" mean? The difference in shutter lag between M11 and M10 is tiny. However, the M10 shutter may be perceived as faster as it does not need to open after exposure. In practice, the difference does not matter unless you do not own an M11 ;-).

[lct]

1 minute ago, Herr Barnack said:

We who do not own an M11 have great joy brought to our lives by annoying those who do have an M11, that's all.  Please do not take it personally, we just enjoy being annoying.

By the way...  Have I ever told you how wonderful my M10 Monochrome is?  Or how it never freezes?  Or how the shutter is lightning fast with a velvety, beautiful sound?  Or how deliriously happy my M10M makes me?  I'm just getting warmed up - let's meet at a bistro for coffee and croissants and I'll give you the deluxe three hour long opera version.  😁

This is an M11 forum here. What would you say if i went on the M10 forum to explain how sluggish the camera can be in LV mode and how good it is to annoy M10 users? 

[charlesphoto99]

7 minutes ago, lct said:

This is an M11 forum here. What would you say if i went on the M10 forum to explain how sluggish the camera can be in LV mode and how good it is to annoy M10 users? 

I would say you are correct and question why the hell is anyone using live view on any M camera in the first place? 

[lct]

2 minutes ago, charlesphoto99 said:

I would say you are correct and question why the hell is anyone using live view on any M camera in the first place? 

Because i like that. Reason why i don't come and annoy M10 users on the M10 forum to explain my personal preferences they have nothing to do about.  

[charlesphoto99]

I think what is being lost as the M series grinds towards becoming a 'mirrorless' electronic camera is the sense of uniqueness and mystery that evolves in images when shooting M's. One doesn't know exactly what they are going to get (depth, framing, etc) until after the fact. Ask any classic M shooter and they will say that is one of the things that attracts them most to the M in the fist place. That surreptitiousness of looking at the world in a slightly off kilter and non-perfect way. If they needed otherwise there was always slr's to turn to (and many carried both - I know I have). Now the M is becoming yet another do it all one stop piece of electronics in this age of wanting stuff to do it all for us without too much thinking. 

I'll stop there so as not upset the more delicate users out there. Anyway, in two years time, many will be trading in those M11's against the M12 as it is, and us M10 lifers will still be annoying pests on that forum. 

[SrMi]

24 minutes ago, charlesphoto99 said:

I think what is being lost as the M series grinds towards becoming a 'mirrorless' electronic camera is the sense of uniqueness and mystery that evolves in images when shooting M's. One doesn't know exactly what they are going to get (depth, framing, etc) until after the fact. Ask any classic M shooter and they will say that is one of the things that attracts them most to the M in the fist place. That surreptitiousness of looking at the world in a slightly off kilter and non-perfect way. If they needed otherwise there was always slr's to turn to (and many carried both - I know I have). Now the M is becoming yet another do it all one stop piece of electronics in this age of wanting stuff to do it all for us without too much thinking. 

I'll stop there so as not upset the more delicate users out there. Anyway, in two years time, many will be trading in those M11's against the M12 as it is, and us M10 lifers will still be annoying pests on that forum. 

Remember that a camera that goes to eleven is always superior to the one that goes only  to ten!

[Crem]

On 1/15/2023 at 7:29 AM, Herr Barnack said:

I am still at a loss to understand why some M11 owners have freeze-ups and others have no problems at all; can this be resolved with another firmware update?  It seems that the first one helped some users but others still have freeze-ups.

I suspect lockups are mostly due to multiple factors 1) firmware bugs (software) and 2) SD card compatibility issues (hardware). So far I've had no lockups since I switched to Lexar v90 cards and firmware 1.6. Previously I was using Sandisk 300mb/s extreme pro cards. This is the article that convinced me to try switching cards: https://alikgriffin.com/best-memory-cards-leica-m11/ I do not have definitive proof that switching cards solved the problem, but it sounds like the M11 has an old SD card reading chip in it and compatibility with some newer may be a problem. It would explain why the lockups are inconsistent between people.

 

Edited January 30 by Crem

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[lct]

1 hour ago, charlesphoto99 said:

I think what is being lost as the M series grinds towards becoming a 'mirrorless' electronic camera is the sense of uniqueness and mystery that evolves in images when shooting M's. One doesn't know exactly what they are going to get (depth, framing, etc) until after the fact. Ask any classic M shooter and they will say that is one of the things that attracts them most to the M in the fist place. That surreptitiousness of looking at the world in a slightly off kilter and non-perfect way. If they needed otherwise there was always slr's to turn to (and many carried both - I know I have). Now the M is becoming yet another do it all one stop piece of electronics in this age of wanting stuff to do it all for us without too much thinking. 

I'll stop there so as not upset the more delicate users out there. Anyway, in two years time, many will be trading in those M11's against the M12 as it is, and us M10 lifers will still be annoying pests on that forum. 

I am a "classic M shooter" (M3, M4, M4-2, M6-J, M8.2, M240 classic enough?) too. This doesn't prevent me from preferring the M11 to the M10 by far. We have different tastes, we prefer different cameras, such is life.  

Edited January 30 by lct