m10r Please advise: I'm looking for a wide-angle lens for my M10 R. Approximately18-22 mm would be good, doesn't have to be Leica, but can be like Wetzlar.

[M Street Photographer]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Dear friends, I need your advice for a wide angle lens on my M10 R.
I was thinking maybe 18-22mm. 24 mm would be almost borderline. I currently have 35, 50, 75mm.
Since I rarely need it, mainly for interiors, it can be cheaply new or used. However, I value the fact that it is as small as possible. It should be "sharp", but it doesn't have to be super sharp, good coloring would be desirable, as would a certain light intensity.

I can use the Visoflex, but if I can, I'd rather focus with the rangefinder.

I would be very grateful for your information.

Edited January 11, 2023 by M Street Photographer

[Al Brown]

Anything Voigtlander or Zeiss for Team Japan or TT/7artisan for Team China.

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[M Street Photographer]

vor 54 Minuten schrieb Al Brown:

Anything Voigtlander or Zeiss for Team Japan or TT/7artisan for Team China.

Do you have any experience with a specific one?

[charlesphoto99]

By a ‘certain light intensity’ I take it you mean aperture? Keep in mind compact and a large aperture opening (not to mention price) don’t go hand in hand. You’ll have to make a compromise with one or the other. Probably the Zeiss 21mm ZM 2.8 is what you are after, or the 21 4.5 if not concerned about speed vs price. 

[Plankendickskendel]

Was able to purchase a used Super-Elmar 3.4-21mm for my M10-P.
Appreciate the excellent image display with unsurpassed handiness.
At a Leica Academy course I was allowed to borrow the bigger brother Summilux 1.4-21mm.
In interiors, museums and churches certainly the better choice, but much larger and more expensive.

[hteasley]

Laowa has a 14mm f4 for M mount if you need really wide for interiors. I use one for real estate photos, and it's perfectly fine.

Super Elmar 21mm is a fantastic lens, if you don't need quite that wide.

[Al Brown]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

10 hours ago, M Street Photographer said:

Do you have any experience with a specific one?

Yes. Summilux 21 is of course the big cheese, but I loved the Zeiss Biogon T* 2,8/21 ZM.

[pegelli]

I use the tiny Voigtländer Color Skopar 21/4, excellent value for money, very small and light and it takes M39 filters like most of my other M-mount lenses. With the much improved low light noise of modern sensors the f4 aperture is not a problem for my typical use. If you rarely need it the price is certainly an attraction allthough the f4 might be limiting a bit for interiors depending on the light and wether you can use a tripod or not.

[PCPix]

4 hours ago, hteasley said:

Super Elmar 21mm is a fantastic lens

There’s your answer. Small, exquisite image quality, almost perfect lack of distortion, perfect for interiors/architecture. 

[charlesphoto99]

3 hours ago, PCPix said:

There’s your answer. Small, exquisite image quality, almost perfect lack of distortion, perfect for interiors/architecture. 

Also 2.5x the price new of the Zeiss 2.8. Though not much more ($500-1000) if found used. Personally I would try and stretch to a Leica, both my 24 2.8 asph and 18 3.4 are amazing lenses, but also long ago bought and paid for (the 24 2.8 was $1200 used like new in 1999). May be able to find a 24 2.8 or 21 2.8 asph still for a decent price used, but not as compact as the other choices. 

[Anakronox]

Any 21mm will do then.  I find myself shooting the 21 on the M-Hexanon Dual 21-35 as I really like the lens’ rendering.  The only other 21mm I have is the Ultron 21 f/1.8 and while sharper, doesn’t demand I use it for some reason I haven’t quite figured out. 

And with either of these lenses you can focus with the rangefinder, to get accurate framing you’ll need to use the Visoflex or get a hotshoe accessory finder.  I recommend the latter. 

[M Street Photographer]

First of all I would like to thank you all for the helpful information.
I'll look at the Zeiss and the Elmar. I also had VC in mind, maybe I can test it at my dealer. It is clear to me that my wishes can hardly be realized: bright, small, inexpensive, rangefinder coupling.
That would also be ideal, but of course I'm willing to make compromises.

[RexGig0]

20 hours ago, M Street Photographer said:

Dear friends, I need your advice for a wide angle lens on my M10 R.
I was thinking maybe 18-22mm. 24 mm would be almost borderline. I currently have 35, 50, 75mm.
Since I rarely need it, mainly for interiors, it can be cheaply new or used. However, I value the fact that it is as small as possible. It should be "sharp", but it doesn't have to be super sharp, good coloring would be desirable, as would a certain light intensity.

I can use the Visoflex, but if I can, I'd rather focus with the rangefinder.

I would be very grateful for your information.

If you would “rather focus with the rangefinder,” there is no problem, at all, rangefinder focusing with wide and ultra-wide lenses. It is the framing that is the challenge, when composing the image. Some of us “see” at 21mm, so can manage at least some shots by simple pointing the camera, but your mention of “interiors” implies that precise framing is necessary.

”Good coloring” eliminates the superbly low-distortion Zeiss 21mm f/4.5 ZM from consideration, and also may eliminate the Zeiss 18mm f/4. (Some report color shift, at the edges of images, with the Zeiss 18mm ZM) The Voigtlander Nokton 21mm f/1.4 VM is a wonderful lens, with no color shift, and will allow plenty of light to reach the sensor, but, it is not “small.” The size does not bother me, but, others’ needs will vary. These are the three M-mount ultra-wide-angle lenses, in the 18mm to 22mm range, that I have. 

If 24mm is “borderline,” I can, most certainly, attest that the Elmar-M 24mm ASPH is a wonderful little lens. With Leica’s discontinuation of all of the 24mm lenses, I decided that I had better start searching, before the collectors’ market started driving the prices upward. I was so impressed with the first Elmar-M 24mm ASPH that I bought, that I proceeded to buy a second one, because the only true insurance policy, in the event of loss, is a second/spare lens. 

[Nick Lo]

VM 21/1.4 .. Can't beat the value. 

[GFW2-SCUSA]

I have and enjoy the Leica 21mm f 2.8 Elmarit which is not an expensive Leica lens, when you can find one. Leica Miami had a used one recently for $1,100. or thereabouts. It doesn't seem to be a very popular lens. I don't know why. 

[DenverSteve]

I will echo the recommendation of a Leica 21mm f2.8 Elmarit-M.  There's one on Ebay currently for $995 from Quebec.  I had one a few years ago and it was a gem of a lens. 

 

[Planetwide]

The 21mm SEM is the best M lens for sharpness at this focal length. The 21mm Summilux would be next, then the 21mm F2.8 Elmarit Asph, and finally the 21mm Elmarit. Each lens has a particular advantage: The SEM - sharpness, Summilux - speed, Elmarit Asph - good sharpness/speed compromise, and the elmarit has the Mandler look.

I have not used the Zeiss/2.8, but by all accounts its a very good lens.

Edited January 13, 2023 by Planetwide

[M Street Photographer]

Now I have researched a lot and condensed the following lenses:

VC21 1.8 Ultron
VC Skopar 21 3.5 (a bit too slow)
Zeiss ZM 21 2.8 Biogon T
Zeiss ZM 25 2.8 Biogon T
Elmarit 2.8 E60 (the most expensive)

The low level of use must be taken into account, which is why the Elmarit almost falls out.

These are my 2 favorites at the moment
VC 21 1.8 Ultra - and that
Zeiss 21 2.8 Biogon

Now it is very difficult to test the first 4 lenses because they are not all available from the dealer. They can also be very useful. I'm not one of those people who order online just to test it and then send it back.
But if I order the final one and test it, I would only send it back if there was a defect or I didn't like the imaging after all.
So now my question: Which of the first 4 named would you prefer and why? Please also say bluntly, any disadvantages.
Thanks.

[astrostl]

Can you elaborate on the specific use cases beyond "interiors?" I would personally avoid the Biogon on a digital M out of concerns for color shift.

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[M Street Photographer]

vor 8 Minuten schrieb astrostl:

Can you elaborate on the specific use cases beyond "interiors?" I would personally avoid the Biogon on a digital M out of concerns for color shift.

Of course, I would occasionally use it outside as well.
The interiors are relatively small, 4x2,5 m - about 5x3 m. It's more about taking pictures of people, so close up, about 1.5 - 2 m away. Artificial light is to be expected.