New Leica M6 and rewind crank clutch?

[lefse]

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When the Leica MP came out in 2003, it had a new feature: The rewind knob has counter clockwise friction equal to that of the film tension.

This means that you can stop rewinding halfway through, and the film knob will hold the film without slipping backwards.

This very useful function is included with the Leica M-A too.

Can anybody with a new Leica M6 (2022) confirm whether or not this “clutch type” is included with the rewind crank system?

(The functionality obviously isn’t included with the M6 TTL from 1998 or the M7 from 2002).

 

[jonoslack]

2 hours ago, lefse said:

When the Leica MP came out in 2003, it had a new feature: The rewind knob has counter clockwise friction equal to that of the film tension.

This means that you can stop rewinding halfway through, and the film knob will hold the film without slipping backwards.

This very useful function is included with the Leica M-A too.

Can anybody with a new Leica M6 (2022) confirm whether or not this “clutch type” is included with the rewind crank system?

(The functionality obviously isn’t included with the M6 TTL from 1998 or the M7 from 2002).

 

If I understand you properly I don't think it's the case

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[Huss]

Nope, it does not have it.  If you look at the rewind crank, the design is very different to the MP/MA/M3/M2.  All those cameras have a center spindle that is separate from the outer rewind knob.  It only engages when the rewind knob is lifted into position.  It is a very good design as not only does it not unspool, but it prevents the film from having  its tension effected in day to day use.  You cannot accidentally rotate the outer spool or impede it from the film advance mechanism.  With the M6 (M7, M4 etc) as the entire crank is always engaged, you could theoretically interfere with the film transport.  This is the same for pretty much any 35mm camera that has an exposed rewind crank - whether SLR or RF.

There is one camera that is the best of both worlds.  The mighty Leica M5.  Not only does it have a regular rewind crank (but on the underside of the camera) like an M6, M7 etc.  But it also has a clutch!  So if you let it go, it will not unwind.  It is a superb design and the clutch actually makes a very cool clicking sound as you rewind the film.

[250swb]

I doubt it very much, and in any case it’s hardly something worth wishing for, the clutch in the MP lasted a few dozen films then stopped working. It only relied on friction, not a proper mechanical design.

Edited January 11, 2023 by 250swb

[colint544]

41 minutes ago, Huss said:

Nope, it does not have it.  If you look at the rewind crank, the design is very different to the MP/MA/M3/M2.  All those cameras have a center spindle that is separate from the outer rewind knob.  It only engages when the rewind knob is lifted into position.  It is a very good design as not only does it not unspool, but it prevents the film from having  its tension effected in day to day use.  You cannot accidentally rotate the outer spool or impede it from the film advance mechanism.  With the M6 (M7, M4 etc) as the entire crank is always engaged, you could theoretically interfere with the film transport.  This is the same for pretty much any 35mm camera that has an exposed rewind crank - whether SLR or RF.

There is one camera that is the best of both worlds.  The mighty Leica M5.  Not only does it have a regular rewind crank (but on the underside of the camera) like an M6, M7 etc.  But it also has a clutch!  So if you let it go, it will not unwind.  It is a superb design and the clutch actually makes a very cool clicking sound as you rewind the film.

Agreed - the M5 has pretty much the gold standard of M camera rewinds IMHO. The designers really thought it out. Hope you get your M6 sorted and returned soon.

[Mikep996]

"This very useful function is included with the Leica M-A too."

 Just curious, What useful function does a clutch on a rewind lever serve?   

 

[TomB_tx]

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21 minutes ago, Mikep996 said:

"This very useful function is included with the Leica M-A too."

 Just curious, What useful function does a clutch on a rewind lever serve?   

 

Rewind a film about half way on a camera without a rewind clutch, and let go of the rewind knob: the knob will spin backwards as the "spring" in the film creates a lot of slack in the film canister, and then you have to wind up all the slack again to continue rewinding. With a crank-style knob it's easy to wind completely without the crank slipping out of your fingers, so this happens rarely. But with the original Leica-style small knob you let go of it often to re-grip and turn, so it is likely to lose the tension and require more twisting.

So the clutch is useful on a knob rewind - not so much with a crank.

[earleygallery]

I like this feature on my M2.

Essentially an 'normal' rewind crank such as on the M6 is simply a handle attached to the spindle which slots onto the film canister. As you rewind if you let go of it the tension will be lost and the lever will usually spin back around as the film unwinds within the canister. You then have to take up the slack again before you start rewinding the film.

With the M2 (and M3/MP/MA) the rewind has a knob and a 'clutch' that holds the spindle in place therefore if you stop rewinding mid roll, the tension remains and the film won't unwind.

It's a very minor issue in reality but a nice feature on some cameras.

[Huss]

5 hours ago, Mikep996 said:

"This very useful function is included with the Leica M-A too."

 Just curious, What useful function does a clutch on a rewind lever serve?   

 

Think it through.  Why would Leica do that?  How could it help the photographer?...

[Mikep996]

Think it through.  Why would Leica do that?  How could it help the photographer?...

Hmm, I suppose it could help photographers by teaching them to deal with/ignore  minor annoyances  - sort of a therapy kind of thing.  But having had both crank and button rewind Leicas, I have to say that therapy didn't work for me.  🤨  

[williamj]

There is a clutch in the rewind spindle in SLRs so I’ve been told. This is to maintain the gap between frames. When frame gaps start to go wonky this clutch needs attention. That’s its main function.

You can hear the film going through the film gate in Leicas so maybe it’s not so important to have a clutch in the rewind spindle.