garyvot Posted October 23, 2007 Share #41 Posted October 23, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) I have never used the DMR and so won't insert myself into the discussion re. comparing the two... However, I will say that getting the color shift issues solved with the M8 has made a world of difference. At first my Canon files just walked all over my Leica files, and for a while I wasn't really satisfied with the camera. Initially it was the lack of IR filtration; then the cyan corners... I still don't have all my lenses coded, but CornerFix with custom lens profiles has solved the problems. Even after I get the lenses back from Leica, I may continue to use this workflow for non-time-sensitive work. Even if you never shoot "synthetic fabrics under tungsten light" and therefore don't see a need for IR filters, you may be surprised by the subtle differences in the files when using filtration and proper post-processing. Just a thought... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 23, 2007 Posted October 23, 2007 Hi garyvot, Take a look here A visit to the Leica digital "mother ship". I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Jamie Roberts Posted October 23, 2007 Share #42 Posted October 23, 2007 Gary-- You're right of course, and I sort of assume that people are all using a filtered workflow now with the M8 (though for a long time I didn't and just corrected in post). But now that this has shaken out and with the coding fix and corner fix and my own LAB correction for cyan corners, the main barriers to great M8 colour are in post processing, and particularly in managing the inherent contrast given the sensor and most of the lenses in most kinds of light (which affects how people deal with the colour). There's certainly a learning curve coming from a Canon and the CMOS sensors, that's for sure! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack_Flesher Posted October 23, 2007 Share #43 Posted October 23, 2007 However the b&w conversions look great. They sure do. And IMO far better with a NON-filtered workflow which is why I don't use the filters during landscape or street shoots. For product or event, they are pretty much mandatory though, unless you plan to deliver only B&W's. Cheers, Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
larry Posted October 23, 2007 Share #44 Posted October 23, 2007 This is really an amusing thread. Comparing the files from two great, but very different cameras. They seem to complement each other, and not compete. I wish I could afford both systems and I'm always amazed at the results from them. Larry Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alba63 Posted October 23, 2007 Share #45 Posted October 23, 2007 This is really an amusing thread. Comparing the files from two great, but very different cameras. They seem to complement each other, and not compete. This is true for the body type, RF versus LSR, but I guess it is natural to expect similar image quality of both, in fact the more recent system should have a better, not worse image quality. A camera system that costs 10k+ for camera body + 2-3 MF lenses should not be visibly limited by file compression. Lightweight and compactness alone are - in my opinion - not enough to justify the price of such a system. regards, Bernie Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Roberts Posted October 23, 2007 Share #46 Posted October 23, 2007 Bernie-- Nice shot, btw-- I guess my point all along is that the M8 is *not* visibly limited with proper processing. In fact, while I've only spent a short time with some (very good, btw) S5 files, my overall impression is that I wouldn't trade my m8 for one Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted October 23, 2007 Share #47 Posted October 23, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) A camera system that costs 10k+ for camera body + 2-3 MF lenses should not be visibly limited by file compression. And it isn’t. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted October 23, 2007 Share #48 Posted October 23, 2007 We can argue this until the cows come home but i love both systems and i certainly don't feel lacking with the M8 and honestly you can pull rabbits out of the hat with either system with great post techniques. Honestly they both get the job done better than any other system I have worked with recently in the last couple years Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
larry Posted October 23, 2007 Share #49 Posted October 23, 2007 Maybe we could agree on something less controversial; such as, Canon and Nikon suck. :-) Larry Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted October 23, 2007 Share #50 Posted October 23, 2007 Works for me. LOL Just kidding Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddp Posted October 23, 2007 Share #51 Posted October 23, 2007 Maybe we could agree on something less controversial; such as, Canon and Nikon suck. :-) Larry hehe....but they don't.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted October 23, 2007 Share #52 Posted October 23, 2007 I agree that new D3 may really kick up some dust. Let's see what happens there Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Roberts Posted October 23, 2007 Share #53 Posted October 23, 2007 Hey--the 1d3 will be great too now once they recall it for focus Rob Galbraith DPI: October 18 update (ducks. Just kidding. Sort of. Everyone remember this the next time Leica has to recall a system for hardware). Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
larry Posted October 23, 2007 Share #54 Posted October 23, 2007 hehe....but they don't.... That's why I own some of them, too. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgcd Posted October 23, 2007 Share #55 Posted October 23, 2007 The one clear joy brought about by this thread for me is the re-discovery of many of my favourite images by Gary Voth. A must-see! Gary Voth Photography: Home Cheers, Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack_Flesher Posted October 23, 2007 Share #56 Posted October 23, 2007 I guess my point all along is that the M8 is *not* visibly limited with proper processing. Precisely Jamie... My exact point too Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted October 23, 2007 Share #57 Posted October 23, 2007 When you get results like this from the M8 than no reason to get your knickers tied up in a knot. It works Extremely early morning Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/36018-a-visit-to-the-leica-digital-mother-ship/?do=findComment&comment=383713'>More sharing options...
ddp Posted October 23, 2007 Share #58 Posted October 23, 2007 so....from those that have used both - is it more difficult to get to the "final result" with the M8 or the DMR? I've shot briefly with both - but from what I've seen on here, the DMR stuff just looks different. Just something else going on there. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robsteve Posted October 23, 2007 Share #59 Posted October 23, 2007 Hey--the 1d3 will be great too now once they recall it for focus Rob Galbraith DPI: October 18 update (ducks. Just kidding. Sort of. Everyone remember this the next time Leica has to recall a system for hardware). The news release reminds me of the early M8 sensor repairs. I wonder if Canon is going to give these early adopters of the 1D MKIII a 30% discount on any Canon lens they want:) Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Roberts Posted October 23, 2007 Share #60 Posted October 23, 2007 so....from those that have used both - is it more difficult to get to the "final result" with the M8 or the DMR? I've shot briefly with both - but from what I've seen on here, the DMR stuff just looks different. Just something else going on there. Dan--I honestly think both cameras are more unforgiving compared with their more-well-known Japanese counterparts. There is less latitude for messing up (though lots of room for experiment and surprises). But when you nail the exposure and processing, they both produce stunning results. The main differences--to me--is that the color processing of DMR files is easier. It doesn't have the same choices in filtering and so on. That doesn't make it better, but it is arguably an easier camera to work with at first; at least it was for me. And processing the DMR gave me a lot of clues about how the M8 should work too: there is a real family resemblance there. So it took me longer to find the colour sweet spots with the M8 than it did with the DMR, and there's more work to be done with the M8 I think in terms of profiling. I know Conrad will kill me for saying this (just kidding everyone!), but at weddings, anyway, the M8 seems to have better higher ISO capability by about a stop, IMO. Once you're used to them though, well, it takes me about the same amount of time to prep a print from a Canon, a DMR or the M8. For BW, as Jack and others have pointed out, the (unfiltered) M8 has an advantage. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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