M6 2022 - Black Shadows on some photos per roll

[Huss]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

11 hours ago, Mooshoepork said:

Having everything well documented is important.

Towards the end of my saga with the 3 faulty brand new MPs from Leica Australia, they were adamant I speak to them on the phone.

I eventually relented after a bit of back and forth and the national sales manager just wanted to use the call to tell me he was disappointed I complained online…

I asked him if he thought I was disappointed having spent $8000 (AUD) on a broken camera.

The arrogance was astounding 

You should be grateful that they allowed you to pay $8000 for a broken camera.

[Jewl]

vor 43 Minuten schrieb Huss:

You should be grateful that they allowed you to pay $8000 for a broken camera.

Very privileged!

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[Mute-on]

17 minutes ago, Mooshoepork said:

I know you’re joking but that was their attitude 😂

After the third one they told me to get a refund I’d have to take more time off work to go in and prove to them there was an issue and they’d only refund it their authorised repair centre determined there was a fault (they did, but I wasn’t keen on waiting for this to happen) 

Their arrogance resulted in a Reddit thread that’s now online forever. 

I literally don’t understand why companies are shocked when this type of thing happens. 

One of the reasons I am disinclined to buy new Leica in Australia any longer, notwithstanding that we are meant to be protected under ACL against DOA items. The other is that at nearly $14,500 for a new M11, that’s a cost I just can’t justify, particularly if it becomes a loan to Leica while they attempt to fix ongoing issues for months on end. 

[Huss]

17 hours ago, Mooshoepork said:

I know you’re joking but that was their attitude 😂

After the third one they told me to get a refund I’d have to take more time off work to go in and prove to them there was an issue and they’d only refund it their authorised repair centre determined there was a fault (they did, but I wasn’t keen on waiting for this to happen) 

Their arrogance resulted in a Reddit thread that’s now online forever. 

I literally don’t understand why companies are shocked when this type of thing happens. 

I will say when I visit a Leica Store - I have been to the Mayfair and Los Angeles locations - they have been very nice and helpful.  The problem is they have no influence on repairs, replacements etc.  They have handled the repair shipping which was nice - so I didn’t have to bother with that. 
But the problem is that is only half the game.  The rest is how Leica HQ then handles it. Their lack of staff in the repair center suggests an attitude that Leica owners are on the whole not users.  ‘we’ just like to collect and if it works or not is secondary.

[earleygallery]

On 1/20/2023 at 5:29 PM, Jewl said:

Yea, very disappointing and annoying. I am also concerned about how fast they react on enquiries. Typically takes 3-5 days to get a first email reply… but yeah, this was rather one of the faster processing times! Nevertheless, would recommend to take the time to fix it with the first attempt instead of the need to send it in again. In total it takes then the same amount of time but double the frustration!

will check a roll before I send it in again. But anyway need to see what they advise to do. Maybe they say we cannot do it any better idk.

Very unsatisfactory. But yes, I think there is an issue in their quality checks whenever they take place. Also gave feedback via their survey monkey satisfaction survey and asked for their feedback/advise overall.

will keep you posted!

Do you know yet if the ‘shutter issue’ is fixed?

Are you saying the bayonet mount on the camera is loose? 

[Jewl]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb earleygallery:

Do you know yet if the ‘shutter issue’ is fixed?

Are you saying the bayonet mount on the camera is loose? 

I am currently finishing a roll I need to get developed first! The camera in the end will be replaced either by a new M6 or an MP. Still indifferent... Opened another thread for this tough question haha. 

RE the bayonet, yes, it seems to be a bit loose so that it feels that the lens is moving a bit if you are focusing (especially if you have a lens with a stiff focus ring such as the 35mm summilux FLE). And this is still prevalent and has not been fixed even though there has been done something to prevent it from moving. Idk whether this is normal with the new M6s?!

Edited January 24, 2023 by Jewl

[Huss]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

3 hours ago, Jewl said:

I am currently finishing a roll I need to get developed first! The camera in the end will be replaced either by a new M6 or an MP. Still indifferent... Opened another thread for this tough question haha. 

RE the bayonet, yes, it seems to be a bit loose so that it feels that the lens is moving a bit if you are focusing (especially if you have a lens with a stiff focus ring such as the 35mm summilux FLE). And this is still prevalent and has not been fixed even though there has been done something to prevent it from moving. Idk whether this is normal with the new M6s?!

Mine was tight and felt normal when I used it with my 35 FLE.  No looseness.

[Jewl]

vor 1 Minute schrieb Huss:

Mine was tight and felt normal when I used it with my 35 FLE.  No looseness.

That‘s what I‘d expect and why I sent a comparison video between the M6 and my M11. Way different!

[LocalHero1953]

Can you describe the bayonet looseness a bit more? If you mean the lens rotates a bit in the bayonet after locking in place, then this is quite common and has been discussed here before, and it shouldn’t cause errors in your images. Obviously you don’t want it so loose so that it moves very easily (which would make it difficult to focus precisely), but I’ve had some lenses on an M body that show this and it’s never worried me or caused problems.

If you mean the lens tilts off axis a bit, leaving a gap at the join, then that certainly shouldn’t happen, and you would get light leaks. 

What sort of looseness do you have?

Edited January 27, 2023 by LocalHero1953

[Jewl]

vor 5 Stunden schrieb LocalHero1953:

Can you describe the bayonet looseness a bit more? If you mean the lens rotates a bit in the bayonet after locking in place, then this is quite common and has been discussed here before, and it shouldn’t cause errors in your images. Obviously you don’t want it so loose so that it moves very easily (which would make it difficult to focus precisely), but I’ve had some lenses on an M body that show this and it’s never worried me or caused problems.

If you mean the lens tilts off axis a bit, leaving a gap at the join, then that certainly shouldn’t happen, and you would get light leaks. 

What sort of looseness do you have?

Yes, I expected there will be some tolerance depending on the lens, the body etc. - no body lens combination is always 100% the same. Nevertheless for me it had especially with the 35mm summilux FLE a perceived impact on the focusing as there the focus ring/tab is very tight and if you move the focus fast from infinity to close, it felt as if you‘d move the lens. therefore I have recorded two comparison videos (M11 vs. M6): https://we.tl/t-GYk2B7YH7m

 

[Mute-on]

32 minutes ago, Jewl said:

Yes, I expected there will be some tolerance depending on the lens, the body etc. - no body lens combination is always 100% the same. Nevertheless for me it had especially with the 35mm summilux FLE a perceived impact on the focusing as there the focus ring/tab is very tight and if you move the focus fast from infinity to close, it felt as if you‘d move the lens. therefore I have recorded two comparison videos (M11 vs. M6): https://we.tl/t-GYk2B7YH7m

 

Any very small difference in the lens release tab ‘finger’ and how it engages or ‘fits’ in the slot in the lens bayonet cam affect how ‘tight’ the lens feels in the mount, as you describe. On one of my body/lens combinations (can’t recall which, now) I always mount the lens, then grasp the barrel next to the mount and gentle wiggle or twist it back and forth to ‘seat’ the release tab finger in the lens slot. You feel the slight play taken up as the finger engages fully. No slop after that.

I might also suggest that if you have to move focus very fast from infinity to close to get it to ‘feel as if you’d move the lens’ then it’s only in this contrived action that your issue might manifest. Firstly, stop doing it. You don’t manipulate a focus tab like that in normal usage, so you are introducing unnecessary torque on the mount. Secondly, does the lens actually move by a perceptible amount, and make a click or clunking noise, or is it literally that you ‘feel as if you’d move the lens’, but it doesn’t really move at all?

Sometimes when we feel something isn’t mechanically perfect, we start to look for, and perceive, very minor imperfections as major faults. I do it all the time, but have learned to moderate my expectations of precision, and stop obsessing (which usually makes the real or perceived imperfection worse, anyway). 

Good luck!
 

Edited January 27, 2023 by Mute-on

[Jewl]

vor 4 Stunden schrieb Mute-on:

Any very small difference in the lens release tab ‘finger’ and how it engages or ‘fits’ in the slot in the lens bayonet cam affect how ‘tight’ the lens feels in the mount, as you describe. On one of my body/lens combinations (can’t recall which, now) I always mount the lens, then grasp the barrel next to the mount and gentle wiggle or twist it back and forth to ‘seat’ the release tab finger in the lens slot. You feel the slight play taken up as the finger engages fully. No slop after that.

I might also suggest that if you have to move focus very fast from infinity to close to get it to ‘feel as if you’d move the lens’ then it’s only in this contrived action that your issue might manifest. Firstly, stop doing it. You don’t manipulate a focus tab like that in normal usage, so you are introducing unnecessary torque on the mount. Secondly, does the lens actually move by a perceptible amount, and make a click or clunking noise, or is it literally that you ‘feel as if you’d move the lens’, but it doesn’t really move at all?

Sometimes when we feel something isn’t mechanically perfect, we start to look for, and perceive, very minor imperfections as major faults. I do it all the time, but have learned to moderate my expectations of precision, and stop obsessing (which usually makes the real or perceived imperfection worse, anyway). 

Good luck!
 

Partially I agree, it is definitely an expectation thing to a certain degree, especially due to the high price. Nevertheless, if you know how it could be (M11), with the same lens, I do think this can be achieved with the M6 then as well as the body more or less is the same (to a large extent). And as you also can see in the video I have shared above, on my M11 it is how I'd expect it to be and the M6 is way different. You can turn or move it up/down/sideways on the X/Y axis. I do think it has no impact on the image (in terms of light leaks) but as mentioned, it feels strange while focusing. It is not only in the extreme case of moving the focus tab from right to left (infinity to close focus). And sometimes you cannot avoid it if the camera rests on a table (last focus was on infintiy) and then you'd like to shoot something that is 70cm close to you... And to be honest, I do not want to take care of such things.

Edited January 27, 2023 by Jewl

[Mute-on]

35 minutes ago, Jewl said:

Partially I agree, it is definitely an expectation thing to a certain degree, especially due to the high price. Nevertheless, if you know how it could be (M11), with the same lens, I do think this can be achieved with the M6 then as well as the body more or less is the same (to a large extent). And as you also can see in the video I have shared above, on my M11 it is how I'd expect it to be and the M6 is way different. You can turn or move it up/down/sideways on the X/Y axis. I do think it has no impact on the image (in terms of light leaks) but as mentioned, it feels strange while focusing. It is not only in the extreme case of moving the focus tab from right to left (infinity to close focus). And sometimes you cannot avoid it if the camera rests on a table (last focus was on infintiy) and then you'd like to shoot something that is 70cm close to you... And to be honest, I do not want to take care of such things.

Yes I see. I do hope the replacement is as you would expect. 

[Jewl]

vor 13 Minuten schrieb Mute-on:

Yes I see. I do hope the replacement is as you would expect. 

Thank you! Yes, me too! They wanted to compare the new one with the details they have from my old one (or directly as I have to send it in anyway in advance) before to ensure everything works properly. If it is similar, then maybe it is really a thing of too high expectations. Fair enough... But idk whether I want accept this.

Anyways, a lot of assumptions etc. - let's see how it turns out 😉 will send it in next week, might take 1-2 weeks I assume.

Edited January 27, 2023 by Jewl

[oldwino]

The bottom line is, if using the camera feels “strange” to you, if it is just “not right”, then you will not want to use it. None of my M cameras has given me that sensation - sure, there have been issues with the rangefinder - all of them have been, fit and finish-wise, very good. 
 

It sometimes surprises me how different various cameras can feel. My M2 and M4 were basically identical in feel when shooting. The M5 was, naturally, different. The later Ms, the 6 and 7 all felt distinctly different from one another. 
Even my Barnacks (I have a II and a IIIa) give off a different feeling when using them, even though they are pretty much the same camera.