Does anybody know this Cam?

[MikeN]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

 

...shall be refurbished but I have no clue about some details

[250swb]

I have a half-plate Thornton Pickard that is almost identical. There are a lot of unbranded cameras in half-plate and 5x7 around, all seemingly made by the same company and I'll try to remember who that company is, but at the moment I can't recall it.

To use it you need to make a lens panel that will take either a more modern lens and shutter combination, or find a period lens that will cover 5x7. I'm guessing a standard Thornton Pickard roller shutter would fit if you do want to use a period lens, but to be honest they aren't very accurate and simply mounting the lens on a home-made lens board and uncapping it for the exposure (long exposures only) is a better option. For the film you need a wooden 5x7 darkslide that you'll need to shim inside to bring modern film up to the correct image plain. They were originally made for thicker glass plates but sometimes you can find a wooden dark slide with a film adapter already inside. For the film itself I think you should be able to buy a box of 5x7 FP4 or similar if you look around, otherwise once a year Ilford will make you a box of custom sized film. All you need to do is contact Ilford and ask for the order deadline for the next custom production run.

Edit - I should add that the actual practice of making a photograph with it, how to focus etc, load film, etc. hasn't changed and any modern guide on using a 4x5 field camera will shed light on it, all except your camera has only the very basic movements which makes it even simpler to operate.

Edited December 31, 2022 by 250swb

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[MikeN]

Thanks for the pointers, 250

I think it's larger than half plate. At least the "projection area" is 123x174mm (given a 5x7 slide, which is 127x178, it looks close). The wood looks close to Mahagoni. I bought it from an Austrian dealer; not sure if it comes from the central European region (DE/AT, ...) or from somewhere else.

You are right the Thornton Pickards look similar; but others, too ;). What I find most characteristic, is the construction of the front standard. Most cams of this kind have a wooden frame mounted on a hinge to the base.

I'll stay curious and try to find out more

Edited December 31, 2022 by MikeN

[Pyrogallol]

I have two similar Edwardian half plate cameras, one Pembroke and the other un-named.

After using the old wooden darkslides for a while I made replacement backs for them to take modern plastic Fidelity type slides which work ok. Lens panels are easy to make from plywood. If you have an old brass lens without a screw mount you can screw the lens directly into the soft plywood panel if you make the hole in the plywood just the right size for the lens screw thread to cut its way into the plywood.

5x7 film is more common than halfplate. The darkslides for both sizes have the same external dimensions, just slightly different internally for the two sizes.

this is probably not the best forum to find information about larger format cameras.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[LocalHero1953]

Try the Large Format forum. They are very serious and conservative folk there, and the photography is usually uninspiring, but they are very generous with advice.

[MikeN]

Doing some research and with the help of other boards I found a couple of indicators that point to an Austrian maker: R. A. Goldmann Fabrik Photographischer Apparate
It's not bullet proof but with a certain evidence

I'll start then refurbishing this beauty

For anyone interested: The project can be tracked here: https://github.com/grainycolors/unknowncam

Edited January 2, 2023 by MikeN

[pgk]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Those angled supports in front of and for the front standard look somewhat unusual and should eventually identify it, if you can find other similat, known examples. I would say that its from the first half of the 20th century but beyond that it will only be possible to go if you can find something similar. You might look through this lot: http://www.earlyphotography.co.uk/site/b_chap.html but if its from elsewhere you will need to try to track down similar examples. It of somewhat similar construction to a Gandolfi Precision, but there were a large number of cameras built on similar themes with slight variations from a large number of makers worldwide. You will probably need new belloews and I can heartily recommend http://www.custombellows.co.uk who can copy old bellows or work from dimension. They are extremely good.

[willeica]

1 hour ago, pgk said:

but there were a large number of cameras built on similar themes with slight variations from a large number of makers worldwide. You will probably need new belloews and I can heartily recommend http://www.custombellows.co.uk who can copy old bellows or work from dimension. They are extremely good.

Precisely put, Paul. There many cameras which look like this from the late 19th and early 20th Century. I have several in my own collection. The make is not really important. Being made of wood, repairs and new parts are easily made. The main issue is making sure that the bellows don't have holes and it is usually better just to replace them. Then you will only need dark slides and/or a holder and a lens board to hold a good lens. If you are going to use modern film materials you will probably need a shutter. A Thornton Pickard type shutter would be 'in period', but if you are not fussy you could use a more modern lens with a built-in Compur type shutter. Below is a photo of one of my cameras with a Thornton Pickard type shutter.

 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

William 

 

[MikeN]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb pgk:

...and should eventually identify it, if you can find other similat, known examples.

You can't imagine how many cams I watched the last 2 days ;). But this "somewhat unusual" you mention tends me into the "Goldmann" direction. I quote myself with my summary here:

Zitat

According to a discussions in großformatfotografie.de² evidence is slowly emerging that the camera was built in an Austria by the maker R. A. Goldmann Fabrik Photographischer Apparate [^3], in a workshop based in Vienna. It's not that I found a 100% proof but there are a couple of indicators pointing to it:

• I bought the camera from an Austrian dealer
• You see many specific details on Goldmann cameras, which look quite similar on the unknow camera:
  • 8x10 Goldmann with design similarities:
    • The plate holder on pic1 has a similar shape
    • The plate holder frame with focus screen flap has a very similar design
    • In this Goldmann Studio Camera (pic 3) you see
      • you see a very specific lens board mount at other Goldmann cameras as well, and at the unknown camera, too
    • This Goldmann has a similar curved construction of the "front standard arms". These "curved arms" are applied because of construction constraints of the baseboard and folding mechanism; like at the unknown camera.
  • In many Goldmann camera variants the construction of the baseboard with its moving part looks very identical.

All these indicators are not bullet proof but a good approximation to the maker.

Yes custombellows.co.uk is likely my choice for the bellows.

Thanks!

 

[250swb]

8 hours ago, MikeN said:

You can't imagine how many cams I watched the last 2 days ;). But this "somewhat unusual" you mention tends me into the "Goldmann" direction. I quote myself with my summary here:

Yes custombellows.co.uk is likely my choice for the bellows.

Thanks!

 

I think you are clutching at straws to even think of saying it's made by a named camera manufacturer, especially looking for a manufacturer simply because they're from the same country you bought it in. Cameras were often badged with the distributors name and not the manufacturers name.

In your investigations you'll have seen the majority of the parts on these cameras are generic in design and manufacture and around the world there were artisan woodworkers building them up and if not Europe also Japan and India especially.

Edited January 3, 2023 by 250swb

[MikeN]

vor 46 Minuten schrieb 250swb:

I think you are clutching at straws ...

250, I know my reasoning is weak but the design facts I put are rather specific than generic. Also a "rivet" with a German name goes into a Austrian/German direction.

However, these indicators could easily be contested at court and I know they aren't a proof at all but at least an approximation

[pgk]

I have several Gandolfis. The two 10" x 8" actually use a 'standard' rear plate holder which can be interchanged. Other than that there is virtually nothing of similarity except between the Precisions, which are clearly the same design. The oldest is has no makers plate but looks like a Gandolfi tailboard (the "Universal") and examination with a dentist's mirror and torch eventually revealed 'L Gandolfi' stamped onto a cross beam below the bellows, which is otherwise invisible. It is pre-1928 but may be from as long ago as 1890 or just before. It was probably a 'generic' tailboard camera built for a retailer who did not want its maker's name obviously displayed. Back then all the brass fittings were bought 'off the shelf' and similar fittings were used by many makers. One of my cameras has a Thornton Rickard 'plumbob' hanger fitted. Only in latter days did the Gandolfi brothers end up having to make their own brassware. The "universal" Gandolfi has been modified too, with rising front plate, lens holder and its retainers having been replaced. Amazingly I picked up a rising front section on eBay for a tenner, which fitted perfectly but was 3mm too long and had an copletely different (damaged) lens holder fitted. It has now been very carefully cut down to fit and has been modified to take the same lensboards as one of the 10" x 8" cameras as this makes both much more usable.

Which is a long winded way of saying that some such cameras also lost their originality over the years. This may be obvious or they may have been so skillfully adjusted that it is impossible to tell. Like mine, a replacement part might have been used (I'm guessing my additional fron is from Gandolfi since it fits but they were notorious for not marking stuff) and may have been fromanothe camera entirely. If you area collector who rewuires full originality then a camers's hitory my be important. Othewise it may well be that modifications were to improve a camera's usability, much like Leica LTM camera upgrades.