Help with SL lens choice(s)

[MRJohn]

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I started with the 50 SL Cron and added the 35 SL a couple of years later. Really depends on what you primarily shoot. The 35 is great for street but for portraits, or a main subject in street I prefer a 50 or longer, regardless if you can take a few steps forward with a 35 or not, it just looks different. I will add an SL 90 at some point. The 35 75 combo seems sensible as an alternative, but the 75 is a bit too short for my use case. These are all amazing lenses. - I hardly use M lenses on the SL, but a few Rs.

[John Smith]

I have all the primes and the 50Lux from trading in my S gear. You really can't go wrong with any of them. And I doubt you'll be able to tell the differences between them. Except that the 50Lux carries a different look. Technically, it doesn't match the SL primes, but it is ahead of the 50APO-M even at 1.4. 

I don't know about anyone else, but I started to notice the differences between the M and SL lenses after getting the SL primes and working with them a while. I just purchased a photo book by a popular Leica photographer. His photos are good, but I can tell they weren't made with SL primes. I have a few M lenses left over from my M days, but I find myself drifting away from them more and more. Funny how that is. 

Edited December 28, 2022 by John Smith

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[Shawn30]

My .02 on the 75mm is that it has the most character of any of the SL lens's. At least my copy does.

[leicableguy]

I just want to say how grateful I am for all of the thoughtful replies…rare to find that on an Internet forum these days!

For those of you who carry multiple lenses, do you swap back and forth all the time based on the particular shot you are taking? Or do you mainly swap day to day based on where you are shooting?

 

[Jeff S]

But just one lens to start so that you can spend more time shooting and less time wondering or relying on others’ needs and experiences. Less is more IMO. You’ll figure out the rest for yourself once you determine if something is missing…or not. Surveys never informed my style. OMMV. 😉

Jeff

[robb]

4 hours ago, leicableguy said:

I just want to say how grateful I am for all of the thoughtful replies…rare to find that on an Internet forum these days!

For those of you who carry multiple lenses, do you swap back and forth all the time based on the particular shot you are taking? Or do you mainly swap day to day based on where you are shooting?

 

For work assignments, I swap any time and all the time depending on what my eyes are seeing based on the project at hand.  I try not to bring the kitchen sink anymore but am always prepared with a range of lenses / and cameras that I know are likely essential.

If I am on vacation or shooting something for myself, I may swap less or just go out with one lens.

Robb

[Jeff S]

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4 hours ago, Jeff S said:

But just one lens to start 

Meant buy one lens…

Jeff

[Luke_Miller]

14 hours ago, leicableguy said:

For those of you who carry multiple lenses, do you swap back and forth all the time based on the particular shot you are taking? Or do you mainly swap day to day based on where you are shooting?

In my event shooting I often carry two bodies to avoid lens changes.  Previously it seemed there was always a shot I missed while in the middle of a lens change.

[dpitt]

6 hours ago, Luke_Miller said:

In my event shooting I often carry two bodies to avoid lens changes.  Previously it seemed there was always a shot I missed while in the middle of a lens change.

+1 for taking two bodies. Often my M9 with 35,40 or 50. The M8 with e 75 or 90 for a tighter shot. If you need to change lenses you miss the shot, and I once changed lens in windy environment, and shot the rest of the day with  some heavy dust specs on the sensor without knowing it. Most photo's cleaned up well , but some were not recoverable.

[leicableguy]

Managed to get a little time with the SL2-S and the 50 and 75 lens yesterday evening. Please take all of this with a grain of salt as this is clearly based on my preference and not meant to denigrate anyone else’s!

First thought is that it is waaaayyyyy to bulky and heavy for my use case.  Pictures online just do not convey how huge these lenses are!  This is a major factor for me not just in terms of portability, but also in how conspicuous they are when shooting people on the street who may be freaked out in a way they aren’t typically with an M.  Of course, I knew it would be bigger and heavier than my M setup, but even my old M240 with a Noctilux .095 seems minuscule by comparison.  

Getting the camera setup was also way more difficult than I thought.  I know other brands are supposedly way worse in terms of their menus, but I was definitely surprised having read that the Leicas were easier by comparison.

Perhaps my biggest surprise was how hard it was to simply get the camera to lock focus on the subject and reframe the shot. Am I missing something, or do I really have to customize and use the joystick in order to do this?  Why can’t I lock focus with a half press on the shutter?  Next challenge was simply getting peak focusing to work, which took another 30 mins of Googling and YouTubing, lol.  Evidently there was some setting checked deep within the menu that disabled it. 
 

Initial test shots with the 50 and 75 were also disappointing to me, though I obviously need more time. Having read that these APO 2.0 lenses render more like a 1.4, I just don’t see it at all.  For me, a Summilux 1.4 has really interesting, artistic, and pretty bokeh, but on the APOs just look subtle and boring to me.  
 

The 35mm was delayed, but frankly there is no way I’m lugging that big of a lens in a 35mm 2.0 focal length.  I can see a 75 or 90 as even an M variant will be heavy, but not a 35.  
 

I guess now my option is to try the body with an M lens, but if I’m never going to use an SL lens, this seems silly as I certainly never needed an EVF on my M240, and the IBIS and video capability probably isn’t enough to outweigh the rangefinder experience for me. 
 

Again, please don’t be offended by my personal experience as it clearly relates to my personal use case. In retrospect, I probably should’ve recognized that this is not a setup designed for someone who wants a compact camera that can be taken anywhere and easily carried all day long while on trips and photo walks.  I’m a hobbyist, not a professional who likely needs this platform in his or her work.  It’s just too bad I couldn’t see one in person first, as I’m sure I would’ve drawn the same conclusion. 
 

Best, Chris. 

[John Smith]

24 minutes ago, leicableguy said:

Managed to get a little time with the SL2-S and the 50 and 75 lens yesterday evening. Please take all of this with a grain of salt as this is clearly based on my preference and not meant to denigrate anyone else’s!

First thought is that it is waaaayyyyy to bulky and heavy for my use case.  Pictures online just do not convey how huge these lenses are!  This is a major factor for me not just in terms of portability, but also in how conspicuous they are when shooting people on the street who may be freaked out in a way they aren’t typically with an M.  Of course, I knew it would be bigger and heavier than my M setup, but even my old M240 with a Noctilux .095 seems minuscule by comparison.  

Getting the camera setup was also way more difficult than I thought.  I know other brands are supposedly way worse in terms of their menus, but I was definitely surprised having read that the Leicas were easier by comparison.

Perhaps my biggest surprise was how hard it was to simply get the camera to lock focus on the subject and reframe the shot. Am I missing something, or do I really have to customize and use the joystick in order to do this?  Why can’t I lock focus with a half press on the shutter?  Next challenge was simply getting peak focusing to work, which took another 30 mins of Googling and YouTubing, lol.  Evidently there was some setting checked deep within the menu that disabled it. 
 

Initial test shots with the 50 and 75 were also disappointing to me, though I obviously need more time. Having read that these APO 2.0 lenses render more like a 1.4, I just don’t see it at all.  For me, a Summilux 1.4 has really interesting, artistic, and pretty bokeh, but on the APOs just look subtle and boring to me.  
 

The 35mm was delayed, but frankly there is no way I’m lugging that big of a lens in a 35mm 2.0 focal length.  I can see a 75 or 90 as even an M variant will be heavy, but not a 35.  
 

I guess now my option is to try the body with an M lens, but if I’m never going to use an SL lens, this seems silly as I certainly never needed an EVF on my M240, and the IBIS and video capability probably isn’t enough to outweigh the rangefinder experience for me. 
 

Again, please don’t be offended by my personal experience as it clearly relates to my personal use case. In retrospect, I probably should’ve recognized that this is not a setup designed for someone who wants a compact camera that can be taken anywhere and easily carried all day long while on trips and photo walks.  I’m a hobbyist, not a professional who likely needs this platform in his or her work.  It’s just too bad I couldn’t see one in person first, as I’m sure I would’ve drawn the same conclusion. 
 

Best, Chris. 

The SL lenses render like a 1.4 in terms of depth and contrast, not in terms of bokeh. 

I’m not sure what problems you were having with focus. The SL2 is easy to focus, manually, with the joystick, or full-on auto. It becomes second nature in no time. 

But, yeah, it is not a kit to be taken anywhere and everywhere (although I take mine virtually everywhere). If you’re fine with a M without an EVF, that might be your best option. Personally, I decided to move away from the M10R because I couldn’t consistently get critical focus with the rangefinder. Also, the SL primes are a couple steps ahead of even the 50APO, which I still have. It all depends on what you want to do.

 

[leicableguy]

I’ll keep working with the AF, as I’m sure it’s partly, if not entirely, user-error.  Or perhaps I’m just used to MF where I’m in complete control and just need to get better at selecting AF modes and learning how to use the joystick.  I’m still a little dumbstruck that the factory setting wouldn’t have that joystick already configured to focus, but I’m glad I figured it out. 
 

I did get some time with it today and the weight was less noticeable, so maybe I’m getting more used to it.  

[beewee]

The size of the SL bodies and lenses takes some adjustments coming from an M system. Best way to make your APO SL primes feel light and small is to shoot the SL2 with the 24-90 SL zoom. Then everything else will feel small and light, including the APO SL primes. 🤣

For focus speed, make sure you’re on the latest firmware and then start with MF and back button AF using sAF. It should be pretty quick.

Edited December 31, 2022 by beewee

[SrMi]

6 hours ago, leicableguy said:

Managed to get a little time with the SL2-S and the 50 and 75 lens yesterday evening. Please take all of this with a grain of salt as this is clearly based on my preference and not meant to denigrate anyone else’s!

First thought is that it is waaaayyyyy to bulky and heavy for my use case.  Pictures online just do not convey how huge these lenses are!  This is a major factor for me not just in terms of portability, but also in how conspicuous they are when shooting people on the street who may be freaked out in a way they aren’t typically with an M.  Of course, I knew it would be bigger and heavier than my M setup, but even my old M240 with a Noctilux .095 seems minuscule by comparison.  

Getting the camera setup was also way more difficult than I thought.  I know other brands are supposedly way worse in terms of their menus, but I was definitely surprised having read that the Leicas were easier by comparison.

Perhaps my biggest surprise was how hard it was to simply get the camera to lock focus on the subject and reframe the shot. Am I missing something, or do I really have to customize and use the joystick in order to do this?  Why can’t I lock focus with a half press on the shutter?  Next challenge was simply getting peak focusing to work, which took another 30 mins of Googling and YouTubing, lol.  Evidently there was some setting checked deep within the menu that disabled it. 
 

Initial test shots with the 50 and 75 were also disappointing to me, though I obviously need more time. Having read that these APO 2.0 lenses render more like a 1.4, I just don’t see it at all.  For me, a Summilux 1.4 has really interesting, artistic, and pretty bokeh, but on the APOs just look subtle and boring to me.  
 

The 35mm was delayed, but frankly there is no way I’m lugging that big of a lens in a 35mm 2.0 focal length.  I can see a 75 or 90 as even an M variant will be heavy, but not a 35.  
 

I guess now my option is to try the body with an M lens, but if I’m never going to use an SL lens, this seems silly as I certainly never needed an EVF on my M240, and the IBIS and video capability probably isn’t enough to outweigh the rangefinder experience for me. 
 

Again, please don’t be offended by my personal experience as it clearly relates to my personal use case. In retrospect, I probably should’ve recognized that this is not a setup designed for someone who wants a compact camera that can be taken anywhere and easily carried all day long while on trips and photo walks.  I’m a hobbyist, not a professional who likely needs this platform in his or her work.  It’s just too bad I couldn’t see one in person first, as I’m sure I would’ve drawn the same conclusion. 
 

Best, Chris. 

You can try the small Sigma Contemporary lenses (45mm and 65 or 90). I like them a lot.

As with every camera, you have to be in AF-S mode in order to lock focus with half-press.

[Stuart Richardson]

Chris,

I think you should return everything now while you can. Based on your initial experience, I don't things are going to get better for you. For me and my work, the SL2 and APO Summicrons are amazing, but you seem to be looking for a totally different use case. As you say, if you are looking for a camera you can carry all day long with a focus on diverse lens character more than absolute performance, the M system is a much more flexible platform. The SL system is a professional mirrorless system geared towards lens quality and performance. It is compact compared to a full size DSLR, the Leica R or the Leica S, which are the kinds of systems it is designed to be compared to. This is not a camera to carry all day on the street, or to casually photograph your children at home. It can do those things, but it is not the best tool for them. Please don't think I am trying to be snarky about being "pro" vs "amateur", it is not about that at all. It is about using the right tool for the job.

With the M system you will have a choice of decades worth of lenses all of varying character, from wild bokeh and softness to super modern sharpness. If you want AF, I think you would actually be happier with something like a Fuji X series camera, which is compact and has a lot of good sharp lenses. For what you are trying to do, you are not really limited by lens performance, but by utility. I think the M is a better choice for you, or if you want AF, have a look at the Fuji system as I mentioned.

[leicableguy]

Thanks Stuart, that is extremely well stated, and I had the exact same thoughts about the SL clearly being a better fit for working pros.  
 

I can’t return the body, so I may try it with an M lens before I make a final decision to sell it. I actually got it brand new for “only” $3300, so I will definitely be paying much more for an M body. 
 

Thanks again for all the sage advice, and happy New Year. 

[Stuart Richardson]

Happy new year to you too! I tend to prefer the M rangefinder for the M lenses, but most M lenses work very well on the SL cameras, so give it a try. With the SL2S you will have the added bonus of stabilization and magnified focus. This is especially useful for shooting fast lenses wide open or using telephotos. The downside is that if you are used to using an M camera, the the SL is slower to focus with M lenses because it does not have the rangefinder. 

Edited January 1, 2023 by Stuart Richardson

[Almizilero]

Am 31.12.2022 um 18:46 schrieb leicableguy:

Perhaps my biggest surprise was how hard it was to simply get the camera to lock focus on the subject and reframe the shot. Am I missing something, or do I really have to customize and use the joystick in order to do this?  Why can’t I lock focus with a half press on the shutter?

I guess every new system needs getting used to. This one works very different with on sensor AF. The AF "wants" to do the work for you, so in certain settings it will automatically decide what you want to focus on. Get away from the wider fields and use a spot focus point and that shouldn't happen. Here's what I do: I either put the focus point where I want it with the joystick and don't have to reframe or I use the tracking focus, put it in the middle, half-press focus, reframe, the focus automatically stays on the object I first focused on no matter where I move it in the frame. The "old way" should also work, but only with AF-S and field/spot AF. The "new ways" have the benefit that you don't shift your focus plane when you reframe.

And another tip that I spent hours searching for on youtube: If you don't like shutter AF and prefer to have AF on a back button and just use the shutter for the actuation, that is possible but WELL hidden! You need to set the AF mode to manual, so the shutter button won't work as AF. Then you have to set the joystick to "AF in MF mode". (I have my menu in German, it's under the second setting on page 4 of the menu.) After this, only pressing the joystick will activate AF. So you could also use this for the focus-reframing. I actually saved this setting as a user profile because it is so complicated to set up for the few times I need it.

[insomnia]

vor einer Stunde schrieb Almizilero:

The "old way" should also work, but only with AF-S and field/spot AF. The "new ways" have the benefit that you don't shift your focus plane when you reframe.

Unfortunately they broke the "old way" for continuous drive, it will refocus and re-expose even with shutter half pressed. Either you go with the faster drive-modes or you do some locking AE-L and AF-L with the back-button. Only that doesn't work with M-Lenses as Joystick-Press it will always be Zoom-In, so you cannot use AE-L. Leica Academy guy tells me, Nikon behaves similar and doesn't seem to forward the feedback to the devs. 

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[Almizilero]

vor 10 Minuten schrieb insomnia:

Unfortunately they broke the "old way" for continuous drive, it will refocus and re-expose even with shutter half pressed.

As it should. At least for AF. AFc is suposed to keep refocusing. AFs shouldn't do that. But I did not consider the re-exposure. I don't think I ever had a camera that did AE-lock on a half pressed shutter? But the Joystick-Button can be set to AF+AE-Lock in AF mode and to AFs+AE-Lock or just AE-lock in Manual mode. That should do the trick and keep it from zooming? Can't test that since I don't have M-lenses. But it doesn't zoom with L-lenses in manual mode if I set it up this way.

Edited January 4, 2023 by Almizilero