Help with SL lens choice(s)

[leicableguy]

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Hi there, I'm sure this has been covered ad nauseam but I'm trying to finalize my SL lens choice to go with my SL2-S prior to the end of the promotion on 12/31.  Unfortunately, my dealer will not accept returns if the box has been opened, so I'm hoping you can steer me in the right direction.  Option 1 is the 35mm APO SL, Option 2 is the 50mm APO SL, and Option 3 is the 35mm APO SL and a 75mm APO SL.   

As a former M240 user, I started with a 35 summicron then promptly swapped it for a 50 Summilux 1.4 ASPH, which I absolutely loved.  To me, the Summicron was just very boring, whereas the Summilux resulted in truly artistic pictures with beautiful bokeh, which is what I'm going for.  If I want clean images with a huge depth of field I'll just use my iPhone

Consequently, I had intended to get the 50 APO Summicron SL, but my salesman pushed me HARD on the 35 instead, claiming that all I had to do was "take a few steps forward" to get the same result as the 50, but that the 35 was a much better performing lens.  Is this true, or will the 35mm always render differently than the 50mm at the same effective framing of the picture?  My other reservation is that a 35mm 2.0 seems awfully  close to the 28mm 1.7 Q2, which comes in a significantly smaller and cheaper package.  I understand the desire to make all of the APO SL lenses out of the same body for economic reasons, but it's really really annoying that the 35 is the same size as a 90!!!

Finally, the most expensive option would be to get the 35 and a 75 so that I've got a bigger range, but that would be overkill if a 50 is sufficient for street photography and portraits. 

Thoughts appreciated!!!

 

 

[robb]

All the apo SL summicrons are simply stellar and pretty equal to each other optics wise.

main question should be how many lenses do you want to carry.  I don’t ever like to crop so I would opt for the 35/75 combo.  You can truly conquer the world with those two together.  I am also planning on adding a 50 SL apo in the next few weeks also so I can simply grab what one lens best fits the subject if I want to travel as light as possible.

one lens only, for places, yeah probably the 35 apo and just modify your distance… but it depends on what you plan to shoot most of the time.  50 would be a better choice for me if my focus was more general with closer up people images.  Only people, I’d just take a 75 or 90.  
 

I realize this is kind of simplistic, but consider all the lenses equally amazing, with good bokeh on all.  Just pick the focal length you have greatest comfort with and roll.  

Robb

[dpitt]

Don’t own a SL yet, but I suppose it is similar for all FF systems. Some people see the world as 35, others as 50mm, some narrower, some go wider.

I seem to be drawn to the 50mm, so if it needs to be allround, the 50 would be it.
Unless you often need to work in confined areas where you can not take a step back, you can make it work. For me 35 would be too wide and DOF too large for portraits.

2 hours ago, leicableguy said:

 I understand the desire to make all of the APO SL lenses out of the same body for economic reasons, but it's really really annoying that the 35 is the same size as a 90!!!

If you still have a wide M lens, I think I would rather buy a 50 and use a 28 M (or 35 M) occasionally as wide on the SL. Its always easier to manually focus wide angles than tele lenses… And with an auto 50 at hand, I think the wide would mostly do static things like landscapes and architecture.

As a bonus you get a very small 35 or 28 with any M version. I really think its a missed opportunity that all lenses for mirrorless do not seem to take advantage of the smaller flange distance. Good for Leica because the M lenses are still the smallest high performance FF lenses around.

[LeicaR10]

Leicableguy,  Both Robb and Dpitt offered sage advice on SL and M lens options.  I will also offer my 2 cents.  First, welcome to the forum.  You will find a wealth of knowledge and experience from well meaning and experienced Leica photographers.  Second, you are not alone with your angst over which SL prime to buy.  The great news, all the SL primes and even zooms are stellar in optical performance. Whether on the SL2 or your soon to be SL2-S.  You will find the SL primes to be very highly resolving, excellent color and nearly no aberrations.  Your issue(s), do you buy a SL50 or SL35.  I suggest you look at your photographs and seen which focal length you shoot the most.  If the answer is 50, the get the SL50.  If you like a wider field of view, get the SL35 and "zoom" with your feet.  Also, if you still have your M lenses, such as your 50 Lux, get the Leica M to L adapter and shoot the 50 Lux with the SL2-S.  Your results will be stellar.  The upside of M lenses are these are optical engineering jewels and perform very well on the SL cameras.  Also, M lenses hold their value and can be rerolled if you decide to get another M camera one day.  You can also try the SL50 and see if it meets your expectations for rendering etc., if it doesn't, trade it for the SL35.  If you want to go more like the M 50 Lux, you can always get a SL50 Summilux and get a cross between a 50 Noctilux and 50 Apo Summicron in rendering; albeit the lens is a little heavy and large. Last, we all have great intentions for offering advice. Ultimately, it gets down to your own decision(s) of choice and bank account.  I hope this helps.  Happy New Year!  r/ Mark

PS.  I forgot to add these links if you want to compare the SL lenses and how they render.

SL 35 Try:  https://onfotolife.com/lens_sample_photos?lens_id=1497&page=1&focal_min=0&focal_max=800&aperture_min=0&aperture_max=32

SL 50 Try:  https://onfotolife.com/lens_sample_photos?lens_id=4184&page=1&focal_min=0&focal_max=800&aperture_min=0&aperture_max=32

SL 75  Try:  https://onfotolife.com/lens_sample_photos?lens_id=1387&page=1&focal_min=0&focal_max=800&aperture_min=0&aperture_max=32

SL 90 Try:  https://onfotolife.com/lens_sample_photos?lens_id=1386&page=1&focal_min=0&focal_max=800&aperture_min=0&aperture_max=32

SL 50 Lux Try:  https://onfotolife.com/lens_sample_photos?lens_id=374&page=1&focal_min=0&focal_max=800&aperture_min=0&aperture_max=32

Edited December 27, 2022 by LeicaR10

[tangosix]

Your question has good timing as I am in the same decision.  I just picked up a SL2s during the promotion and am curious to others experiences. 

I did take a loaner sl50apo for visit to NYC over the holidays and it was a positive experience with some lessons:

First, the sl2s is not high pixels and wow I noticed that right away when editing against the M11.  I have been spoiled with lazy composition and easy cropping.  I realized that sl2s is going to require a more intentional composition.  For that reason, I am leaning toward the 50apo for my style of shooting.  I am so pleased with the results.  

I too, have been hearing buzz regarding the SL35mm.  It must be something special. 

The 75 is one I see the merits in, even though almost everyone is trying to talk me into the 90 because they love the added compression. 

The conundrum for me is the sl50lux.  

I enclosed an sl50apo image shot in the dark it seemed.  thedarlingnyc rooftop. 

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Edited December 27, 2022 by tangosix

[tangosix]

3 hours ago, robb said:

 main question should be how many lenses do you want to carry.  I don’t ever like to crop so I would opt for the 35/75 combo.  You can truly conquer the world with those two together.  I am also planning on adding a 50 SL apo in the next few weeks also so I can simply grab what one lens best fits the subject if I want to travel as light as possible.

one lens only, for places, yeah probably the 35 apo and just modify your distance… but it depends on what you plan to shoot most of the time.  50 would be a better choice for me if my focus was more general with closer up people images.  Only people, I’d just take a 75 or 90.  
 

I realize this is kind of simplistic, but consider all the lenses equally amazing, with good bokeh on all.  Just pick the focal length you have greatest comfort with and roll.  

Robb

just listen to Robb, his images are the real thing. 

[robb]

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The good news is that there is no real wrong answer.  I like M lenses also.  There is definitely magic in using the smaller M lenses with the SL adapter with fast focus peaking and the viewfinder quick zooming in to check critical focus if you like.  The only issue in using them is that the camera asks you when you switch lenses to select the lens focal length so that the ibis can do its job correctly.  So if you like to work very quickly this can slow down your rhythm when you see the next image you want to get ready for…  with the SL lenses, the camera already knows all and is ready to go without delay.

if you already have an M 50mm that you like and are familiar with for your muscle memory, you may want to just grab an adapter for that and go with a dif focal length with an apo SL lens.

I have an M 28 asph summicron, an M 50 Nokton 1.0, and an M 90 apo summicron.  All smaller than their SL twins, fun to use, etc… but they are slower to be ready on the SL cameras and offer no weather proofing nor AF.  But you can mix and match with your favorite combo.

I have the 28 and 90 for sale as I think I’d rather have mostly SL lenses for their amazing optical performance and quick interchange without any slowing down during a shoot.  But if they take a while to sell, or never sell, that’s ok too as they are still very nice to use and the smaller size can also help out in many situations.

I see the SL2 and SL2-s as M replacements because of all their features.  I don’t think I will add another M camera to the mix until ibis makes its way into an M.  To me that alone is a great game changer.

if you asked me the one lens I could never be without, it would probably be the SL apo 75mm.  I see it as a slightly long feeling 50.  I like a little compression to most of my favorite images.  The 75 still lets you communicate easily with portrait subjects and the SL version is crazy, like other-worldly sharp.  Lenses that have extraordinary sharpness and clean colors are something I have always strived to use.  My R 180 apo summicron had that… these SL apo lenses are even better.  I would never have thought that possible.

Robb

[Jeff S]

6 hours ago, leicableguy said:

Unfortunately, my dealer will not accept returns if the box has been opened…

(Snip)

…Consequently, I had intended to get the 50 APO Summicron SL, but my salesman pushed me HARD on the 35 instead, claiming that all I had to do was "take a few steps forward" to get the same result as the 50, but that the 35 was a much better performing lens.  

 

 

I would start by finding a new dealer.

1. Return policies from reputable dealers should not have that restriction.

2. Photographing from a closer subject distance changes perspective; not the same as cropping, which maintains perspective.

All of the SL lenses are stunning performers.  Choose one based on your shooting style and subject matter. Use it for a while and figure out the rest over time.  Don’t look back; hard to make a poor choice.
 

Jeff

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[Jean-Michel]

Just a little note: the OP wrote that he greatly disliked the M 50 Summicron and that he really preferred the 50 Summilux. So why would an S APO Summicron now be his or her choice. 
 

[leicableguy]

11 minutes ago, Jean-Michel said:

Just a little note: the OP wrote that he greatly disliked the M 50 Summicron and that he really preferred the 50 Summilux. So why would an S APO Summicron now be his or her choice. 
 

Just wrote a long reply to all but got kicked out before I got to post it!  Jean-Michel, my understanding is that the APO Summicron performs more like a 1.4 due to its contrast behavior.  I did get to demo a 50 APO Summicron M at Leica SoHo and was really impressed with how that lens rendered incredible micro-detail while still managing to retain the character of a faster lens.  

As to my original reply, thank you to everyone for the warm welcome and thoughtful replies!  I bit the bullet and ordered all three lenses from a different dealer with a return policy so I can actually experience them first hand.  Based on your collective feedback, I'm expecting to come full circle with my initial choice of the 50 APO SL.  This is the focal length I'm most accustomed to, and it seems to be the best choice for a single lens setup that can do a little bit of everything.  If the first dealer was right and the 35mm outshines it, then I'll happily give credit where it's due.  The wildcard is the 75...if I decide I can't live without it, then the 35/75 combo makes more sense to me than a 50/75.  

I do not still have my M 50 Summilux, however I do intend to get an M adapter ASAP since that was a major selling point for me to go to the SL2-S.  I'm only trying the APO SL lenses as I want to experience AF, not to mention they are way less expensive than their M counterparts, especially with the promotional discount.  If I decide the SL lenses are just too bulky, then I'll go back to the trusty M 50 Summilux and call it a day!  

Below are a few images I shot with my 50 lux on my M240, and a few portraits that I shot with a .95 Noctilux.  These are pretty indicative of what I mostly shoot, i.e. street and family photos.    

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[Jeff S]

An SL lens also provides a weather sealed package, unlike using an M lens, if that’s important.  
 

I keep my M lenses.. 28/35/50.. on my M bodies, where they work exceptionally well. The SL2, with SL lenses, serves different needs for me, and a different shooting approach.  YMMV.

Jeff

[tangosix]

@leicableguywow, impressive images.  can't wait to hear your impressions of the new lenses. 

[Almizilero]

If you can afford it, you can't go wrong with the 35/75 combo. That said, I just fell in love with the 50mm. A focal length that I never really appreciated, but now the lens is on my SL2-S all the time. So I just highly recommend it, especially if it was your lens of choise on the M.

Regarding the 35, it is a beautiful lens aas well, but I wouldn't say it is noticeably better than the 50. And there is a really nice "cheap" option, the 35/1.2 by Sigma. It's large, it's heavy, but it is also the only non-Leica L-Mount lens that rivals the image quality of the Leica lenses. Everything imho of course.

And no, it is not just a few steps closer with the 35. The look is just different. If that were true, just get a Q2 and use the different crop modes for anything
This and the no returns policy should really make you look for a different dealer.

Looking forward to hear your conclusion after testing all three. BTW, why no 90?

[leicableguy]

Thanks Almizilero, much appreciated. Initially I was only planning to buy a single lens with the SL2-S, so it wasn’t until I started second guessing the 35mm focal length as my only lens that I considered pairing it with a 75. Also, I have a friend who is a Leica ambassador who gushes about the 75. As a hobbyist, I don’t typically do dedicated portrait settings, so I think the 90 might not be the best fit. 
 

Glad to hear you love the 50mm and that it’s the lens most often used with your SL as that was my original assumption before being swayed toward the 35 instead. I’ve never carried two lenses before, and am already wary of the bigger SL platform, so the 50 may well be the ticket. 
 

In the dealer’s defense, they are one of the largest Leica dealers and are giving me a great price on everything, even on top of the SL promo. The no-return policy is a bummer, but I was surprised to find out that is actually the norm…Leica Online Store, Leica Miami, etc…all have strict no returns policies. Unfortunately, I don’t have a local dealer where I can demo in person, so this is my only option. 
 

 

[Jeff S]

27 minutes ago, leicableguy said:

Leica Miami, etc…all have strict no returns policies.
 

 

Not so.  And their restocking fee is not always applied. 😉

https://leicastoremiami.com/pages/faq

Jeff

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[leicableguy]

1 hour ago, Jeff S said:

Not so.  And their restocking fee is not always applied. 😉

https://leicastoremiami.com/pages/faq

Jeff

Well it does specifically say that any opened return will be charged 15%, so I personally don’t consider that a viable option either at $150 per lens. But I do understand that open boxes must be sold at a discount, so it makes sense that only the bigger chains can offer a full return policy. 

Edited December 28, 2022 by leicableguy

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[Jeff S]

I speak from personal experience.  YMMV. 
 

Jeff

[LBJ2]

On 12/26/2022 at 10:27 PM, robb said:

The good news is that there is no real wrong answer.  I like M lenses also.  There is definitely magic in using the smaller M lenses with the SL adapter with fast focus peaking and the viewfinder quick zooming in to check critical focus if you like.  The only issue in using them is that the camera asks you when you switch lenses to select the lens focal length so that the ibis can do its job correctly.  So if you like to work very quickly this can slow down your rhythm when you see the next image you want to get ready for…  with the SL lenses, the camera already knows all and is ready to go without delay.

if you already have an M 50mm that you like and are familiar with for your muscle memory, you may want to just grab an adapter for that and go with a dif focal length with an apo SL lens.

I have an M 28 asph summicron, an M 50 Nokton 1.0, and an M 90 apo summicron.  All smaller than their SL twins, fun to use, etc… but they are slower to be ready on the SL cameras and offer no weather proofing nor AF.  But you can mix and match with your favorite combo.

I have the 28 and 90 for sale as I think I’d rather have mostly SL lenses for their amazing optical performance and quick interchange without any slowing down during a shoot.  But if they take a while to sell, or never sell, that’s ok too as they are still very nice to use and the smaller size can also help out in many situations.

I see the SL2 and SL2-s as M replacements because of all their features.  I don’t think I will add another M camera to the mix until ibis makes its way into an M.  To me that alone is a great game changer.

if you asked me the one lens I could never be without, it would probably be the SL apo 75mm.  I see it as a slightly long feeling 50.  I like a little compression to most of my favorite images.  The 75 still lets you communicate easily with portrait subjects and the SL version is crazy, like other-worldly sharp.  Lenses that have extraordinary sharpness and clean colors are something I have always strived to use.  My R 180 apo summicron had that… these SL apo lenses are even better.  I would never have thought that possible.

Robb

FWIW, I use the Auto lens-profile feature setting on the SL2. It auto recognizes every adapted Leica M lens I own using the Leica M-L adapter with a quick confirm msg when I turn on the camera. No addition steps needed. If I use a third party party M-mount lens, then like all mirrorless cameras I have to set the FL for proper IBIS alignment. 

[LBJ2]

55 minutes ago, leicableguy said:

Well it does specifically say that any opened return will be charged 15%, so I personally don’t consider that a viable option either at $150 per lens. Better than nothing I suppose. 

I agree. 15% is a cold shower. Any percent is a cold shower when there are so many other alternatives. My guess is the 15% restock fee is in place to discourage abuse. I would definitely make it clear pre-purchase to the shop you want the option to return within a defined limited period it doesn't workout. My favorite non-Leica shop allows up to 14 days for instance. If the shop can't accommodate then there are alternatives that will. 

Edited December 28, 2022 by LBJ2

[trickness]

I have the 35 and 75 SL APOS and they are both absolutely incredible. I’m sure the 50 is just as stellar - if you are going to get only one lens, it’s a tough call between the 35 and the 50… Do you like to shoot tighter, or include more environment in the photograph? The 50 should have slightly better OOF rendering than the 35, but honestly, the 35 does a pretty good job throwing things out of focus if you’re close to the subject.

If you’ve got the cash, the 35 and 75 would be a great kit. But perhaps you should tread lightly into SL glass… if you’re coming from an M, you might feel that SL with native glass is bulky by comparison. I use my M glass on the SL pretty frequently with the adapter, but I’m very glad to have native glass with this camera because it is so spectacular. It’s really down to how much money you have and what your priorities are.

That said, 50 is my ride or die focal length. What’s yours?

Edited December 28, 2022 by trickness