Difference? Used Excellent Leica S 007: from USD 3500~ 12000

[Einst_Stein]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

8 hours ago, bilbrown said:

This is true, and I have loved and used my S typ 007 for many years. Before this I rented an S type 006 and S2. However, servicing the camera can be a real bitch. 

 

I recently sent mine in for body armor replacement and Leica sent a laundry list of issues that I didn't expect or notice. Even with the DRAMATIC language. "main body broken" and "eyepiece deformed" – neither of which I or anyone at the Leica Store LA noticed.

Also with this caveat, and I quote:
Please understand that we cannot offer a partial repair on this camera.

 

I thought this was CRAZY, since the camera is such a tank I would have had to have essentially thrown it off a cliff to have any of the issues they quoted. I suspect that the camera was damaged in transit to NJ or Germany but will get to the bottom of it. A CLA seems to be pretty extensive... and expensive (almost the price of a used S 007 body!) So I'm unsure.

I will have the repairs done, likely. It just makes me very upset.

 

 

If paying $3000 for a used S 007, adding another $3000 to repair it to Leica’s Like-New standard, I think it is a good deal.

 

[Stuart Richardson]

It is also my experience that Leica describes items as if they have been through a war even when they are gently used. If there are any light usage marks visible at all, it will be "signs of heavy use" and so on. I think this is just a hedge against legal liability. It has been going on a long time...at least ten years or so.

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[bilbrown]

4 hours ago, Einst_Stein said:

If paying $3000 for a used S 007, adding another $3000 to repair it to Leica’s Like-New standard, I think it is a good deal.

 

I am beginning to agree. It was just a shock, and I want to make sure nothing happened to it in transit.

[bilbrown]

11 hours ago, LeicaR10 said:

BillBrown,  I am surprised what Leica Wetzlar wrote about your camera.  You are most likely correct about damage in perhaps store/service handling along the way or at NJ or Germany.  The camera is built like a tank and can take a lot of abuse.  I once watched a fellow S photographer drop his rig.  It must have dropped at least 20 feet down a granite outcrop.  The camera had some cosmetic damage, but it was still in working order and he continued his shoot.  Yours sounds like it got run over by a truck.  Personally, I would ask Wetzlar to confirm the Serial Number of the camera they say is yours for starters.  It could be someone elses or swapped in NJ...who knows.  But its worth asking the question.   I once had an issue where I sent one of my SL lenses for a CLA via Australia to Germany.  It returned with a bent filter rim.  Leica Australia did and investigation and found via their security cameras a person dropped the lens in the shipping department. They apologized and sent me a new lens.  I would think you will find out what happened.  One almost needs to take external photographs and get a signed statement of external condition on the repair order when turning in gear for repair at a dealer as proof.  Actually, the Leica Store in LA should help you get this resolved,  The store is a flagship Leica store. It does have weight with NJ.  The LA store staff know your camera was not taken in the described condition.  If it was damaged as described, the store staff would have noted that on the repair tag and included that damage in the repair estimate. This should work in your favor.  r/ Mark

This is how I am resolving it, everyone is being very nice and I am getting photos from how the camera got into the HQ service facility. The staff at Leica LA is being very helpful. Other than overly dramatic language, the description should not be how my camera arrived.

[bilbrown]

6 hours ago, BernardC said:

That's just Leica protecting themselves. They list every small amount of wear or damage on receipt, to the level where even the most demanding collector would be impressed. It makes for a horrifying list, but in the end it won't change the amount you pay. I think they've had too many users claim that Leica created damage that was there previously. I'll bet all of that is well documented in case there's a claim.

The note about "partial repairs" is in a similar vein. The estimate is for a full repair, it's not a restaurant menu. They don't want to return a camera that's only partly repaired, and hear complaints later from the person who agreed to that partial repair. Even worse, someone could sell a camera as "recently serviced by Leica," not mentioning that it wasn't fully repaired to Leica's standards. That could get messy, with public accusations, lawsuits, etc., so I understand why Leica won't perform half-a-repair.

Yes, I totally understand this is likely part of the reason for the dramatic language. However, until I see how the camera came to them I won't take it at face value. I want to know what they mean... it sounds like my well loved but well used camera had an accident it didn't have.The attached is what it looked like the day it left LA for NJ. 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[Sarnian]

5 hours ago, Einst_Stein said:

If paying $3000 for a used S 007, adding another $3000 to repair it to Leica’s Like-New standard, I think it is a good deal.

My 7/10 condition 007 that I've spoken about previously is now on ebay.co.uk for £1,999.99 but still no one is buying it. How much would it cost to get 2 new back buttons fixed? Probably not $3,000. The rest is cosmetic paint losses and a rubbed card door. This is a 007 with no sensor corrosion issues to worry about! I'm flummoxed. 

I could be wrong, but I reckon people are buying into the GFX line of cameras and overlooking the Leica S cameras as they are large and heavy (not that the GFX lenses aren't large - they're just not as heavy).   

[Stuart Richardson]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

5 minutes ago, Sarnian said:

My 7/10 condition 007 that I've spoken about previously is now on ebay.co.uk for £1,999.99 but still no one is buying it. How much would it cost to get 2 new back buttons fixed? Probably not $3,000. The rest is cosmetic paint losses and a rubbed card door. This is a 007 with no sensor corrosion issues to worry about! I'm flummoxed. 

I could be wrong, but I reckon people are buying into the GFX line of cameras and overlooking the Leica S cameras as they are large and heavy (not that the GFX lenses aren't large - they're just not as heavy).   

Welcome to the Hotel California...that is the S system, haha.

[Pieter12]

16 minutes ago, Stuart Richardson said:

Welcome to the Hotel California...that is the S system, haha.

Or is it the Roach Motel?

[Einst_Stein]

1 hour ago, Sarnian said:

My 7/10 condition 007 that I've spoken about previously is now on ebay.co.uk for £1,999.99 but still no one is buying it. How much would it cost to get 2 new back buttons fixed? Probably not $3,000. The rest is cosmetic paint losses and a rubbed card door. This is a 007 with no sensor corrosion issues to worry about! I'm flummoxed. 

I could be wrong, but I reckon people are buying into the GFX line of cameras and overlooking the Leica S cameras as they are large and heavy (not that the GFX lenses aren't large - they're just not as heavy).   

I compared the rendering of Contax 645 + Hasselblad CF39 (CCD) with M240 (CMOS) (and  to my eyes the CCD is more “humble” while CMOS is more “BOLD”. GFX seems to be more extreme towards the Bold side, 

I happen to favor the color towards the bold side, for example, a little addicted on the “dehaze” ‘vibrant” “saturation”.  But quite often, after a while, to look back the CCD pictures with less tweak, I found less tweaked pictures are actually more preferred.

I wonder if I might feel similarly between GFX and S. So I am hesitate to pick one between the two. 

[Sarnian]

1 hour ago, Sarnian said:

My 7/10 condition 007 that I've spoken about previously is now on ebay.co.uk for £1,999.99 but still no one is buying it.

Okay, so £1,999.99 + 20% VAT (£399.99) = £2,400 + P&P. 

I might start it a 1p and see what it sells for. Joking! 🤓

[bilbrown]

On 1/6/2023 at 10:35 AM, bilbrown said:

Yes, I totally understand this is likely part of the reason for the dramatic language. However, until I see how the camera came to them I won't take it at face value. I want to know what they mean... it sounds like my well loved but well used camera had an accident it didn't have.The attached is what it looked like the day it left LA for NJ. 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Well update, to the photos back from Wetzlar... does not even seem like the same camera!

The body is definitely broken, but have no clue HOW that happened.

 

 

Leica IS SO KIND and getting to the bottom of it. We are lucky!

 

 

[bilbrown]

This was in the series of photos of the camera that gave me PAUSE... like there is NO WAY my camera could have been this way when I sent it.

I have zero idea what happened, but I can surmise that this was an issue with shipping.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[helged]

7 hours ago, bilbrown said:

This was in the series of photos of the camera that gave me PAUSE... like there is NO WAY my camera could have been this way when I sent it.

I have zero idea what happened, but I can surmise that this was an issue with shipping.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Ohhh, that's way beyond a small impact... Agree, shipping is likely the cause. The underlying impact should also be visible on the packing - and should have been picked up by the person receiving the package. Strange. 

[Stuart Richardson]

Yikes. I imagine the force involved to do that is quite extreme. I would be surprised if it is repairable. Can you post a wider shot? It is hard to tell exactly where that is...

[Pieter12]

18 hours ago, bilbrown said:

This was in the series of photos of the camera that gave me PAUSE... like there is NO WAY my camera could have been this way when I sent it.

I have zero idea what happened, but I can surmise that this was an issue with shipping.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Is there other damage? It seems like whatever would cause what we see in the photo would have to damaged other parts of the camera and lens. Otherwise, I would consider it a manufacturing defect. One does not expect a camera body to just break open like that in just one place, even if dropped on a hard surface.

[bilbrown]

4 hours ago, Pieter12 said:

Is there other damage? It seems like whatever would cause what we see in the photo would have to damaged other parts of the camera and lens. Otherwise, I would consider it a manufacturing defect. One does not expect a camera body to just break open like that in just one place, even if dropped on a hard surface.

Yes, there are bent parts and connections. Evidently a lot of the mechanics are beneath the body armor (which is odd).

It doesn't look like it was just dropped...

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[bilbrown]

13 hours ago, Stuart Richardson said:

Yikes. I imagine the force involved to do that is quite extreme. I would be surprised if it is repairable. Can you post a wider shot? It is hard to tell exactly where that is...

The factory didn't give anything but detailed shots.

 

here is another

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[bilbrown]

and the bottom...

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[Sarnian]

Could you share with Leica the last photo that was taken with the camera to prove that it was working right up to when you sent it off to them? The EXIF data would show the time/date that the photo was taken. 

Edited January 11, 2023 by Sarnian

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[davidmknoble]

I would also investigate the carrier and method shipped.  I’m sure the Leica store can place a claim, but I would want to know so as not to use that shipper / method!

As a caveat, I have sent my S007 to Germany over 3 times to get cleaned, etc. Since purchasing it new (through a Leica store) and it has always come back looking brand new…

 

Edited February 12, 2023 by davidmknoble